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Started By
Message
Untagged Ducks - advice needed updated OP
Posted on 1/18/18 at 9:17 pm
Posted on 1/18/18 at 9:17 pm
I've been duck hunting on and off since I was a kid. Due to how expensive the sport can be, I didn't really get into duck hunting until a few years ago when I could fully finance it myself. I thought I knew most of the rules regarding hunting waterfowl, but I was wrong.
A few months ago I was camping at the Atchafalaya delta WMA. The campground right next to the WLF coastal outpost. I have never had any inclination to break any laws while hunting, and I especially wanted to be correct with my tent 40 yards away from a WLF outpost. Anyways, I make a hunt and shoot 4 birds on a Monday midday hunt and come back to camp. I put the birds in a bag then place them in my ice chest. I knew not to clean them because agents would need to be able to ID them if they wanted. Well, the next morning I wake up head out to hunt, shoot a few birds and come back to the camp. My ice chest is gone. At this point I'm pissed because I think it's stolen. Well after sometime a agent comes over, and I get a ticket for not following the law quoted below.
I was extremely polite to the guy and explained how this was my first time camping. Every single hunt I've ever been on has ended with us coming back to a home or house camp. Well that didn't mean shite to him, and I got a ticket.
Pre trial Diversion paperwork came in..
$106 for the disposal of the confiscated ducks- WLF fine (separate)
$500 fine
40 hours community service
6 months probation w/ $60 a month fee for meeting with a counselor.
It will come off my record but wow... I'm fricking shocked with how much this is going to cost me. Anyways the reason I posted all this is to educated other hunters. I also am wondering if anyone believes this is worth going to court over and pleading my ignorance/case. I can't find anything in regards to my offense and what to expect if I went to court.
I took the time to print out about 100 tags, and I now keep them in my blind bag. I've been back to the campground on another 5+ occasions. I've walked the campground and talked to other hunters. I'd say I've talked to 50+ different groups. 40 or so had no clue they had to tag their ducks so I gave them tags. 5 or so guys only knew about the tagging process because they heard my story so they were compliant, and 5 or so groups really were aware of the rule but a few didn't have tags so again I supplied tags.
Yeah, this sucks
*Update*
Showed up to court.. That’s worthy of a thread by itself. Before showing up I talked to a friend that works for a DA in another area and got some advice on how things would go. Well this court moved faster than what I was told to expect. I was called forward and I approached the podium. Was addressed with the charge. I asked if I could have a moment to address the court before pleading(buddies advice) judge said go ahead. After about 5 secs of my story he cut me short and asked if I had any record. No. And other charges? No. Asked what the fine was. 400-900. Said if I plead it’s 400 plus court costs 340. I plead guilty, paid with a credit card and heading home.
There was one old black guy that was being arraigned. When he approached the DA said they wanted to postpone his arraignment to get more evidence. This old man lost his shite calmly. He said I’ll be damned. This is the 2nd time y’all done did this to me. The judge asked what he had done. Old man said I had a dead coon. A what? A coon, mean critters ya know em. The court room is serious but everyone was laughing at this point. Well the old man wasn’t having it. He said I’ve driven here twice from Houston for a damn coon. If there’s a fine lemme pay it, but I’m tired of driving out here for a dead coon I didn’t kill. I picked him up out the water while fishing. The judge stopped him and told the DA to resolve the issue today. I left before seeing the resolution.
Another was in shackles and had already served 60 days for theft. He stole 7 dollars...
A few months ago I was camping at the Atchafalaya delta WMA. The campground right next to the WLF coastal outpost. I have never had any inclination to break any laws while hunting, and I especially wanted to be correct with my tent 40 yards away from a WLF outpost. Anyways, I make a hunt and shoot 4 birds on a Monday midday hunt and come back to camp. I put the birds in a bag then place them in my ice chest. I knew not to clean them because agents would need to be able to ID them if they wanted. Well, the next morning I wake up head out to hunt, shoot a few birds and come back to the camp. My ice chest is gone. At this point I'm pissed because I think it's stolen. Well after sometime a agent comes over, and I get a ticket for not following the law quoted below.
quote:
No person shall give, put or leave any migratory game birds at any place or in the custody of another person unless the birds are tagged by the hunter with the following information: 1. The hunter’s name and signature. 2. The hunter’s address. 3. The total number of birds involved, by species. 4. The dates such birds were killed. Tagging is required if the birds are being transported by another person for the hunter or if the birds have been left for cleaning, storage (including temporary storage), shipment or taxidermy services. (
I was extremely polite to the guy and explained how this was my first time camping. Every single hunt I've ever been on has ended with us coming back to a home or house camp. Well that didn't mean shite to him, and I got a ticket.
Pre trial Diversion paperwork came in..
$106 for the disposal of the confiscated ducks- WLF fine (separate)
$500 fine
40 hours community service
6 months probation w/ $60 a month fee for meeting with a counselor.
It will come off my record but wow... I'm fricking shocked with how much this is going to cost me. Anyways the reason I posted all this is to educated other hunters. I also am wondering if anyone believes this is worth going to court over and pleading my ignorance/case. I can't find anything in regards to my offense and what to expect if I went to court.
I took the time to print out about 100 tags, and I now keep them in my blind bag. I've been back to the campground on another 5+ occasions. I've walked the campground and talked to other hunters. I'd say I've talked to 50+ different groups. 40 or so had no clue they had to tag their ducks so I gave them tags. 5 or so guys only knew about the tagging process because they heard my story so they were compliant, and 5 or so groups really were aware of the rule but a few didn't have tags so again I supplied tags.
Yeah, this sucks
*Update*
Showed up to court.. That’s worthy of a thread by itself. Before showing up I talked to a friend that works for a DA in another area and got some advice on how things would go. Well this court moved faster than what I was told to expect. I was called forward and I approached the podium. Was addressed with the charge. I asked if I could have a moment to address the court before pleading(buddies advice) judge said go ahead. After about 5 secs of my story he cut me short and asked if I had any record. No. And other charges? No. Asked what the fine was. 400-900. Said if I plead it’s 400 plus court costs 340. I plead guilty, paid with a credit card and heading home.
There was one old black guy that was being arraigned. When he approached the DA said they wanted to postpone his arraignment to get more evidence. This old man lost his shite calmly. He said I’ll be damned. This is the 2nd time y’all done did this to me. The judge asked what he had done. Old man said I had a dead coon. A what? A coon, mean critters ya know em. The court room is serious but everyone was laughing at this point. Well the old man wasn’t having it. He said I’ve driven here twice from Houston for a damn coon. If there’s a fine lemme pay it, but I’m tired of driving out here for a dead coon I didn’t kill. I picked him up out the water while fishing. The judge stopped him and told the DA to resolve the issue today. I left before seeing the resolution.
Another was in shackles and had already served 60 days for theft. He stole 7 dollars...
This post was edited on 2/7/18 at 10:53 am
Posted on 1/18/18 at 9:22 pm to Athletix
We do it at our camp all the time. Keep tags at the camp and when we drive home after the weekends they are all tagged
Posted on 1/18/18 at 9:23 pm to Athletix
You did not leave them - they were at your campsite. If you can show evidence of registration at the campsite, you are good to go.
Sounds like the game warden unlawfully searched your campsite as well.
I would “get your ducks in a row” and take him to court.
I would fight 3 fronts:
1. Unlawful search
2. Language of law you cited
3. Appeal to the common sense of the court - I would politely go after the GW
Do you have a criminal record?
Are you past due with child support?
Make sure you have no outstanding legal issues, sans this matter before you go to court.
Sounds like the game warden unlawfully searched your campsite as well.
I would “get your ducks in a row” and take him to court.
I would fight 3 fronts:
1. Unlawful search
2. Language of law you cited
3. Appeal to the common sense of the court - I would politely go after the GW
Do you have a criminal record?
Are you past due with child support?
Make sure you have no outstanding legal issues, sans this matter before you go to court.
This post was edited on 1/18/18 at 9:28 pm
Posted on 1/18/18 at 9:24 pm to Athletix
quote:
sucks
I'd say. $600+ is nuts. Bet it feels terrible to be the guinea pig.
Could've happened to me as well because I wasn't aware either.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 9:31 pm to Athletix
6. Months probation
40 hours Community service
For not tagging a bird, jeeez , I know criminals who have gotten less, that is slap ridiculous, I would be tempted to hire a lawyer and go to court
40 hours Community service
For not tagging a bird, jeeez , I know criminals who have gotten less, that is slap ridiculous, I would be tempted to hire a lawyer and go to court
Posted on 1/18/18 at 9:32 pm to KillTheGophers
No criminal record, no record at all. No kids
My tent was on public ground and my ice chest was outside of the tent on public ground. I appreciate the advice, but I feel like I'd lose this angle quick.
This is what I want to do. To be honest I have no faith in the "process", I've been made the guinea pig once what's to stop the judge from removing hunting privileges for a year and tack on a fine with it? Hell could I serve time in jail? I can't find much on what the general punishment is, except that it varies wildly
Right now the tally is $960. I'm sure the state will have more fees to add on
My tent was on public ground and my ice chest was outside of the tent on public ground. I appreciate the advice, but I feel like I'd lose this angle quick.
quote:
3. Appeal to the common sense of the court
This is what I want to do. To be honest I have no faith in the "process", I've been made the guinea pig once what's to stop the judge from removing hunting privileges for a year and tack on a fine with it? Hell could I serve time in jail? I can't find much on what the general punishment is, except that it varies wildly
quote:
I'd say. $600+ is nuts. Bet it feels terrible to be the guinea pig.
Right now the tally is $960. I'm sure the state will have more fees to add on
This post was edited on 1/18/18 at 9:42 pm
Posted on 1/18/18 at 9:34 pm to KillTheGophers
quote:
Sounds like the game warden unlawfully searched your campsite as well.
Can't Game wardens search wherever they want without a warrant?
Posted on 1/18/18 at 9:34 pm to Chuker
Many years ago we also were camping at same campground. After a good hunt we were cooking a gumbo using some of the teal we had killed. Gamewarden walked up checked everyone including our dead birds. He then proceeded to open our pot and spoon out and count every teal in the pot. I remember he laid them on the lid sitting on ground. We were legal, but we thought that was going a little overboard.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 9:42 pm to Athletix
quote:
I also am wondering if anyone believes this is worth going to court over and pleading my ignorance/case.
I don't think you are going to have much luck fighting this in court as you are supposed to tag each days birds. As with all laws, ignorance is not going to get you far as a defense. The only thing a trip to court will do is make you realize there are some real outlaws still out there.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 9:50 pm to DuckSausage
If your on a wma they can search anything they want. ANYTHING.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 10:03 pm to MWP
quote:
I don't think you are going to have much luck fighting this in court as you are supposed to tag each days birds. As with all laws, ignorance is not going to get you far as a defense. The only thing a trip to court will do is make you realize there are some real outlaws still out there.
Yeah... I have no experience in this realm, and I would be banking on a judge showing me some mercy for a law that I will be admitting I violated. It's the shock of a thousand dollars in fines and community service. Can I get better if I went to court and just took the blemish on my record?
Posted on 1/18/18 at 10:14 pm to Athletix
This is the most ridiculous punishment I have ever seen. I'm sure any reasonable judge would drop this substantially.
I'm guessing this is a federal offense so you will see a Federal judge, he probably did not get picked on as bad as the federal agent you were dealing with in high school so he will deal with reason on the charges.
I would like to be present when the Judge chews this agent a new one for backing up his docket with this crap.
I'm guessing this is a federal offense so you will see a Federal judge, he probably did not get picked on as bad as the federal agent you were dealing with in high school so he will deal with reason on the charges.
I would like to be present when the Judge chews this agent a new one for backing up his docket with this crap.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 10:24 pm to Athletix
"what's to stop the judge from removing hunting privileges for a year and tack on a fine with it? Hell could I serve time in jail?
Because if someone breaks the law, they have the right to go to court to offer proof that they didn't break the law, or they had a valid excuse to break the law, and they can't be punished for exercising their rights. If you have a good faith legal argument,a judge can't punish you for trying to convince everyone you're in the right. You may get stuck with court costs if you lose but they can't throw you in jail just for trying to explain your side of things....
Because if someone breaks the law, they have the right to go to court to offer proof that they didn't break the law, or they had a valid excuse to break the law, and they can't be punished for exercising their rights. If you have a good faith legal argument,a judge can't punish you for trying to convince everyone you're in the right. You may get stuck with court costs if you lose but they can't throw you in jail just for trying to explain your side of things....
Posted on 1/18/18 at 10:35 pm to Athletix
quote:This is when you have to tag. If they're yours and in your ice chest you should be good as long as you aren't over possession limit.
Tagging is required if the birds are being transported by another person for the hunter or if the birds have been left for cleaning, storage (including temporary storage), shipment or taxidermy services.
Next time clean them.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 10:38 pm to jjtgr76
quote:Link or source, please.
If your on a wma they can search anything they want. ANYTHING.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 10:47 pm to Geauxtiga
quote:
This is when you have to tag. If they're yours and in your ice chest you should be good as long as you aren't over possession limit.
"No person shall give, put or leave any migratory game birds at any place or in the custody of another person unless the birds are tagged by the hunter with the following information: 1. The hunter’s name and signature. 2. The hunter’s address. 3. The total number of birds involved, by species. 4. The dates such birds were killed. Tagging is required if the birds are being transported by another person for the hunter or if the birds have been left for cleaning, storage (including temporary storage), shipment or taxidermy services."
Pretty sure the bolded part is the law I broke verbatim.
quote:
Next time clean them.
No person shall completely field dress any
migratory game bird (EXCEPT mourning
doves, white-winged doves and band-tailed
pigeons) and then transport the bird from
the field. The head or one fully-feathered
wing must remain attached to all such birds
while being transported from the field to
one’s home or to a migratory bird preservation
facility.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 10:53 pm to Athletix
quote:Pretty sure u didn't.
Pretty sure the bolded part is the law I broke verbatim
First part: did you leave them with ANOTHER person? Nope.
Second part: Did someone transport them to be cleaned for you? Nope.
On the bottom part, that is while in the field.
Lol at "verbatim." Read it carefully.
This post was edited on 1/18/18 at 10:54 pm
Posted on 1/18/18 at 10:55 pm to KillTheGophers
quote:
or if the birds have been left for cleaning, storage (including temporary storage)
This verbiage right here..that’ll be their rebuttal, and win.
This post was edited on 1/18/18 at 10:57 pm
Posted on 1/18/18 at 11:00 pm to Passing Wind
quote:You're leaving out the critical part, "being transported by ANOTHER PERSON FOR the hunter."
This verbiage right here..that’ll be their rebuttal, and win
This post was edited on 1/18/18 at 11:02 pm
Posted on 1/18/18 at 11:01 pm to Geauxtiga
No person shall give, put or leave any migratory game birds at any place **or** in the custody of another person unless the birds are tagged by the hunter with the following information: 1. The hunter’s name and signature. 2. The hunter’s address. 3. The total number of birds involved, by species. 4. The dates such birds were killed. Tagging is required if the birds are being transported by another person for the hunter **or** if the birds have been left for cleaning, storage (including temporary storage), shipment or taxidermy services.
There are two really big ORs in that law. The scenario you describe is definitely the the portion of the law that I knew about, but there are two parts
There are two really big ORs in that law. The scenario you describe is definitely the the portion of the law that I knew about, but there are two parts
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