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Posted on 7/10/22 at 8:41 am to baldona
Live in natchitoches parish,we have killed some big rattle snakes. But over the last ten or so years alot of them will only have 1 or 2 buttons reguardless of size.. wht?
Posted on 7/10/22 at 8:41 am to chinhoyang
evolution doesn't work that fast. I still hear and see just as many rattling even in hog over run places like NO east and sherburne. (No east may have the highest density of both of anywhere in LA)
Posted on 7/10/22 at 8:46 am to DMAN1968
quote:
Millions of years to evolve to have rattles for a very specific reason...that isn't going to start to reverse in 20-50 years.
We're talking about a behavior here, not physical appearance. That timeframe may seem small to us, but for most species of wildlife, 20-50 years is several generations. It's very plausible for a population to change behaviorally under intense pressures (like increased predation) in that time period, or even shorter periods.
If this was a physical trait changing, like the rattle completely disappearing, that's a different story.
Posted on 7/10/22 at 9:07 am to Ron Cheramie
quote:almost like a Goldilocks theory.
Turkeys that are loudmouths are much more likely to be predated
Tall folks make better basketball players.
Posted on 7/10/22 at 10:02 am to chinhoyang
I believe that is hogwash.
Like the previous poster said the only way for a snake to learn this is to be attacked when rattling. And survive. And tell his buddies.
Like the previous poster said the only way for a snake to learn this is to be attacked when rattling. And survive. And tell his buddies.
Posted on 7/10/22 at 11:46 am to 9rocket
Wildlife evolves with their environment and experience. Pheasants used to crouch and hide at the approach of a predator and then burst forth into flight at the last second, scaring the heck out of the hunter and getting shot because of their close proxemity. Our few remaining pheasants no longer do this, they start running as soon as they detect the hunter and they don't flush until they are at the limit or beyond reasonable shotgun range. It's called "survival of the fittest".
This post was edited on 7/10/22 at 11:48 am
Posted on 7/10/22 at 12:13 pm to ImaObserver
Animals can learn without evolving.
Sharks were attacking baby Orcas off the coast of Africa. Well some of the Orcas started killing sharks whenever they saw them. Sharks are abandoning the areas where those Orcas are attacking sharks. No evolution here, but changed behavior.
Sharks were attacking baby Orcas off the coast of Africa. Well some of the Orcas started killing sharks whenever they saw them. Sharks are abandoning the areas where those Orcas are attacking sharks. No evolution here, but changed behavior.
Posted on 7/10/22 at 3:11 pm to armsdealer
I think it’s a selective breeding thing,traits passed down.
When I first moved out here in the country armadillos would come out shortly after sundown,I killed 19 in or around my yard first year.Killed a couple of hundred since.
As time as gone on there are plenty of armadillos but they pretty much only come out between midnight and 4 in morning.I have a cellular camera set up in my yard but I don’t often hear the notification on my phone at 3-4 am.
That’s my theory,the “ early risers” got killed off,one’s left to breed are the “night owls” and they pass that trait down.
Could be same with rattlesnakes.Some are “rattlers” and some are not.The “non rattlers” survive in greater numbers and pass that trait on .
Sounds plausible to me.
When I first moved out here in the country armadillos would come out shortly after sundown,I killed 19 in or around my yard first year.Killed a couple of hundred since.
As time as gone on there are plenty of armadillos but they pretty much only come out between midnight and 4 in morning.I have a cellular camera set up in my yard but I don’t often hear the notification on my phone at 3-4 am.
That’s my theory,the “ early risers” got killed off,one’s left to breed are the “night owls” and they pass that trait down.
Could be same with rattlesnakes.Some are “rattlers” and some are not.The “non rattlers” survive in greater numbers and pass that trait on .
Sounds plausible to me.
Posted on 7/10/22 at 8:40 pm to chinhoyang
I’ve heard that and have had mixed results when encountering them. One rattled as I was walking up on it the other wouldn’t rattle even after being poked with a stick.
I will say I’ve seen lots more snakes in trees since we’ve gotten more hogs on out place.
I will say I’ve seen lots more snakes in trees since we’ve gotten more hogs on out place.
Posted on 7/11/22 at 2:11 am to chinhoyang
Pigs frick up everythimg
Posted on 7/11/22 at 7:21 am to chinhoyang
Hogs or rattlers is a tough choice.
Posted on 7/11/22 at 2:12 pm to DMAN1968
Evolution is much quicker than you think regarding behavior. In only a few generations of snakes, I'm talking 10 years, a survival behavior will become prominent.
This is a well studied and documented phenomenon, even in humans recently. There are areas in Africa for instance, where the landscape/climate/politics make the area unable to support more than X number of people. Historically, when the population exceeded the food/water supply, all that was required was a cyclical drought to cause mass starvation, death and migration. Enter wealthy western civilizations, who took pity and started supplying endless food and water, the populations exploded far beyond what the region could possibly support. When the food/water aid was diminished (WW1 & WW2, for example) mass starvation and death returned to "balance" the natural system.
This is a well studied and documented phenomenon, even in humans recently. There are areas in Africa for instance, where the landscape/climate/politics make the area unable to support more than X number of people. Historically, when the population exceeded the food/water supply, all that was required was a cyclical drought to cause mass starvation, death and migration. Enter wealthy western civilizations, who took pity and started supplying endless food and water, the populations exploded far beyond what the region could possibly support. When the food/water aid was diminished (WW1 & WW2, for example) mass starvation and death returned to "balance" the natural system.
Posted on 7/11/22 at 8:30 pm to eatpie
quote:
Evolution is much quicker than you think regarding behavior
quote:
Evolution may be defined as any net directional change or any cumulative change in the characteristics of organisms or populations over many generations—in other words, descent with modification
I guess I don't equate evolution and learned behavior in the same way as some. I'm older...maybe I'm behind the times.
quote:
When the food/water aid was diminished (WW1 & WW2, for example) mass starvation and death returned to "balance" the natural system.
To me that is not an example of evolution or learned behavior...seems more like an example of not learning something.
Posted on 7/11/22 at 8:43 pm to DMAN1968
I’m calling BS, snakes aren’t that intelligent. This is just speculation
Posted on 7/12/22 at 9:03 am to DMAN1968
quote:
Evolution may be defined as any net directional change or any cumulative change in the characteristics of organisms or populations over many generations—in other words, descent with modification
Snakes don't "learn" behavior from their parents. As mentioned before, if a snake that does not rattle when a large animal (hog) is near survives to breed, whatever genetic predisposition is potentially passed yo its offspring.
Behavior is definitely genetic. Birds know instinctively how and when to build a nest. Puppies know instinctively to search for a nipple to suck. Newborn fawns know instinctively to be still and quiet when the mother is away.
Basically, evolution doesn't have to be a visual or physical thing
Posted on 7/12/22 at 12:07 pm to chinhoyang
We do not have hogs were I hunt (at least yet), and I find the Canebrakes do not rattle much. Now the diamondback tend to rattle. Just my observation over the last 15 or so years.
Posted on 7/12/22 at 12:20 pm to chinhoyang
quote:millions of years of evolution to form a rattle, they just stop because hogs....
Some locals swear that our local timber rattlers no longer rattle warnings. Supposedly, this is some type of adaptation to avoid getting killed by feral hogs who hear the rattling.
Anyone experience this?
Posted on 7/12/22 at 1:37 pm to chinhoyang
Rattling is like a dinner bell for the hogs.
Posted on 7/12/22 at 2:47 pm to commode
We have plenty of canebrakes around here. See them every couple of days. I’ve walked up on a few, don’t recall any of them rattling, but the closest hogs would be miles from them. No way word got passed to them not to rattle in case a hog walks by. I think like you said, that they just don’t rattle much, if at all.
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