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1
Posted on 3/20/14 at 1:50 pm to KingRanch
Where the hell has he been when I've asked about them?
By the way, I have my eyes on the compensated version. I watched a high speed of the recoil reduction and it's impressive.
By the way, I have my eyes on the compensated version. I watched a high speed of the recoil reduction and it's impressive.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 1:53 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
quote:Could not give you a number even close, but I know Rock Island and Nighthawk make them. I can't do a whole lot of gun stuff at work due to firewall.
how many 9mm 1911's are there?
Posted on 3/20/14 at 1:54 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
AlxTgr
Remington and Kimber both released 9mm versions this year.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 1:55 pm to bapple
Posted on 3/20/14 at 2:25 pm to AlxTgr
I've got news for DanTiger, neither a 9mm nor a .45 will/would go through the bigger bone in a mans arm and then penetrate. If either were to hit a bond on an extended arm the bullet would ricochete off. I would probably break the bone but pistol rounds will not penetrate bone consistantly.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 2:33 pm to DanTiger
Put a .357mag in the night stand and call it a day... 
Posted on 3/20/14 at 2:43 pm to bapple
STI has production 9MM 1911's...seen and fondled in Cabela's.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 3:39 pm to DanTiger
quote:
Mass vs velocity? What are your thoughts? .45 superior to 9mm
Sounds like a good science fair project!
Posted on 3/20/14 at 3:55 pm to TigerOnThe Hill
After watching a tactical show demo on the tube this past wknd I would have to say any of the pistol choices are negligible.
Using ballistics gel they shot. 9, 40 and 45 and had great penetration but I was shocked at the size. ( or lack of) the wound channel on all.
Shot the same gel with .223 and horrific wound channel. Just insane.
Proved the old saying right that a pistol in a home defense situation should merely be used as an instrument of maneuvor in order to get to ones REAL home defense weapon, be it an AR or shotgun.
Really changed my mind on the non- importance of the whole defensive pistol /caliber argument.
Using ballistics gel they shot. 9, 40 and 45 and had great penetration but I was shocked at the size. ( or lack of) the wound channel on all.
Shot the same gel with .223 and horrific wound channel. Just insane.
Proved the old saying right that a pistol in a home defense situation should merely be used as an instrument of maneuvor in order to get to ones REAL home defense weapon, be it an AR or shotgun.
Really changed my mind on the non- importance of the whole defensive pistol /caliber argument.
This post was edited on 3/20/14 at 4:57 pm
Posted on 3/20/14 at 3:58 pm to TigerOnThe Hill
Pretty sure he did baking soda volcanoes and potato batteries.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 4:42 pm to MahiFishn
quote:
I can, without a doubt, tell you that i'll be carrying federal HST 9mm. It's some pretty sick stuff.
This .... mine is 147 grain.
I also keep HST in my .40's and .45's -- but I carry the 9mm. As was posted earlier -- 9mm means more rounds in the gun and faster follow-up shots.
Having tested the 9mm HST at a not-to-be-named State police lab, I can tell you mine expanded to .83 caliber. This is not insignificant expansion.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 6:48 pm to DanTiger
quote:
I agree with all of this but I am talking about one scenario where the round has to penetrate an arm bone before striking center mass.
Are you going to carry one gun or one round for that scenario? Or are we just going to continue this as a never ending academic discussion.
I don't care for 9mm and I'm not recoil sensitive. I have virtually identical pistols in 9mm, .40, .45. The guy with the .45 is going to have a hitting power advantage, the 9mm will have a "firepower" advantage and the .40 is a balance.
As defensive choices, they (along with .357 Sig, and, certain loadings of 10mm) are so close as to make this purely a preferential choice.
I shoot my "favoriteist" the best, and it is in .45 ACP (Sig P245 - German frame, Exeter Slide). If I had to pull out one of my pistols to save my life, it would be that one. However, I shoot "newest" almost as well (Sig P229, .40 S&W). I'm shopping for a German P226 and, perhaps, an Exeter P226 in .40 S&W or .357 Sig.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 6:49 pm to DanTiger
I shoot 115ish grain 9mm running around 1275 fps.
When comparing them to a .45 corbon round... both penetrate flesh about the same.
The difference between the two were wound cavity size and exit wound performance. The. 45 stayed together better, but after 6-8 inches the 9mm round I shoot fragments. So ratger than a singleboarge exit wound, there were 8-10 wounds.
Personally, in the hog we shot a 180 grain .45 travelling 1200 fps was the most catastrophic but penetration was bad.
I carry 9mm, not because it is the best cartridge, I carry it because i can put shots together almost as good as .22
The best man stopper small caliber to me are those lightweight .45s we shot.
If I could have any gun, a three shot 12 gauge revolver with double out buck would be tough to beat. Recoil is a moot point when someone is a foot away trying to kill you.
When comparing them to a .45 corbon round... both penetrate flesh about the same.
The difference between the two were wound cavity size and exit wound performance. The. 45 stayed together better, but after 6-8 inches the 9mm round I shoot fragments. So ratger than a singleboarge exit wound, there were 8-10 wounds.
Personally, in the hog we shot a 180 grain .45 travelling 1200 fps was the most catastrophic but penetration was bad.
I carry 9mm, not because it is the best cartridge, I carry it because i can put shots together almost as good as .22
The best man stopper small caliber to me are those lightweight .45s we shot.
If I could have any gun, a three shot 12 gauge revolver with double out buck would be tough to beat. Recoil is a moot point when someone is a foot away trying to kill you.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 6:57 pm to SuzukiGoat
Strictly from a physics stand point I would think that both a bullet with a higher mass but lower velocity and a bullet with a lower mass and higher velocity would be affected negatively at almost the same rate when having to penetrate a forearm before hitting a target.
(Momentum)=(Mass)X(Acceleration)
(Momentum)=(Mass)X(Acceleration)
Posted on 3/20/14 at 7:23 pm to Whitrabbt
Not quite that simple. At those speeds, even sub-sonic .45 ACP hitting flesh is going to impart thousands of PSI across the front surface of the bullet. Depending on how hard the jacket or exposed lead is, the metal will act almost like a plastic under rapid deformation. The slower .45 will undergo less dramatic deformation while the faster 9mm will deform much more violently. That sudden rate of expansion will affect depth of penetration. You can take two otherwise identical 147gr 9mm loads (one loaded to standard, the other +p) and get more penetration with the standard pressure round at the expense of smaller permanent stretch cavity.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 7:59 pm to Whitrabbt
quote:
Strictly from a physics stand point I would think that both a bullet with a higher mass but lower velocity and a bullet with a lower mass and higher velocity would be affected negatively at almost the same rate when having to penetrate a forearm before hitting a target.
(Momentum)=(Mass)X(Acceleration)
Momentum=Mass X Velocity
sorry
Posted on 3/20/14 at 8:56 pm to Clames
quote:HaHa!! Thankfully, I'm now past the stage of having to help/do the annual science fair project(s).
Pretty sure he did baking soda volcanoes and potato batteries.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 9:00 pm to DanTiger
Why are we having thoughts on this?
Actual facts says there is little difference in .45 vs 9mm for rounds on The List.
Actual facts says there is little difference in .45 vs 9mm for rounds on The List.
Posted on 3/21/14 at 12:28 am to Tigah in the ATL
I can kill a armadillo with one .22 bullet...and usually do.
I have shot an armadillo with 8 or 9 .40 hydrashocks...all entered and exited. Loaded him in the back of the cart to haul off, when i got to the water, hr had jumped out and run off.
Shot placement trumps everything if you ask me.
I have shot an armadillo with 8 or 9 .40 hydrashocks...all entered and exited. Loaded him in the back of the cart to haul off, when i got to the water, hr had jumped out and run off.
Shot placement trumps everything if you ask me.
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