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Started By
Message
re: Mass vs velocity? What are your thoughts? .45 superior to 9mm
Posted on 3/21/14 at 5:54 am to SuzukiGoat
Posted on 3/21/14 at 5:54 am to SuzukiGoat
quote:
Shot placement trumps everything if you ask me.
While I do not believe it "trumps" everything, it should be concern #1.
1 well placed shot with .22lr is significantly better than any number of misses with .50AE, for example.
This post was edited on 3/21/14 at 5:55 am
1
Posted on 3/21/14 at 6:34 am to SuzukiGoat
quote:
.40
quote:
run off
Doesn't surprise me
Posted on 3/21/14 at 8:26 am to SuzukiGoat
quote:
Shot placement trumps everything if you ask me.
I don't disagree but that is not the topic at hand. Some of you have posted well thought out responses and I appreciate them. I am biased on this subject as i already believe what I posted in my OP but some great counter points have been brought to light here.
Posted on 3/21/14 at 8:36 am to DanTiger
A well placed shot is more important
Posted on 3/21/14 at 8:43 am to Cracker
quote:
A well placed shot is more important
I don't dispute that but it is not germane to this discussion.
Posted on 3/21/14 at 3:35 pm to DanTiger
Ok chief
Whatever you chose be proficient with it.
Whatever you chose be proficient with it.
Posted on 3/21/14 at 5:08 pm to Cracker
One reason I would prefer the .45 in the scenario here ( arm bone hit prior to main cavity hit) is I think it would have a higher chance of incapacitating that limb. If my shot is deflected off a lethal area by striking his arm first, I'd like to hinder his ability to shoot back at me with well placed shots or effectively manipulate his weapon. I'm a believer in the "big hole theory", and I think the .45 would have a better chance of breaking bones, tearing muscle tissue/tendons/etc.
But I'm just a road patrol sergeant and not an expert by any means, but it made sense to me.
But I'm just a road patrol sergeant and not an expert by any means, but it made sense to me.
Posted on 3/22/14 at 5:20 pm to SoFla Tideroller
Humans aren't cape buffalo. You shoot a guy in the arm with a service pistol he's not going to shake it off and he's not going to notice a difference between getting hit with a .45 or a 9mm. He's going to shite himself with the most pain he's ever felt pretty quickly and switch hands or give up. 9mm will break that bone same as a .45 and both of them can bounce off of it at the wrong angle.
It's like the old stupidity about 'brush guns'. There's no such thing. Sorry. All bullets deflect.
It's like the old stupidity about 'brush guns'. There's no such thing. Sorry. All bullets deflect.
Posted on 3/22/14 at 6:15 pm to Captain Rumbeard
I disagree. Too many instances where bad guys have been hit and carried on the fight.
Posted on 3/22/14 at 6:44 pm to Captain Rumbeard
quote:
Humans aren't cape buffalo. You shoot a guy in the arm with a service pistol he's not going to shake it off and he's not going to notice a difference between getting hit with a .45 or a 9mm. He's going to shite himself with the most pain he's ever felt pretty quickly and switch hands or give up. 9mm will break that bone same as a .45 and both of them can bounce off of it at the wrong angle.
Not true at all at least not at first. A friend if mine was shot point blank range in the face, hip, leg, and chest (in his vest). He said it felt like he got punched in the face. He gathered himself and unloaded his gun into the closet where the guy was.
This is a guy that just got shot in the face, just think about someone that's high as a kite on drugs.
Posted on 3/22/14 at 7:26 pm to DanTiger
quote:
I don't dispute that but it is not germane to this discussion.
No offense, but it's germane to what the real discussion of handgun calibers ought to be.
All handguns that are commonly carried for SD (specifically 9mm, .40 and .45), with SD loads, are puny compared to most centerfire long guns. So shot placement with a handgun is far more important than the mass of the bullet or its velocity.
So among your choices, the firearm and cartridge that will allow me to most effectively place rapid accurate shots on target (assuming it's a service-caliber weapon) is the one I'll choose.
Posted on 3/22/14 at 10:19 pm to dawg23
I have shot three common things with a .357mag, .40cal and .45. If had to choose as to what I was gonna get shot with the .45 would be last on the list and the .40 would be first. The .45 does massive damage.
I sold the .40 shortly afterwards and will never own another.
BTW these were all with hollow point self defense rounds.
I sold the .40 shortly afterwards and will never own another.
BTW these were all with hollow point self defense rounds.
Posted on 3/22/14 at 10:33 pm to offshoretrash
again, why would we spend time deciding what we think about these rounds when it's pretty much been decided for us.
Posted on 3/22/14 at 10:59 pm to DanTiger
Dunno. I've shot a racoon with thewwife's 9mm and he took off. Shot another one with my xd 45 and knocked him on his arse and hr didnt get back up.
Same distance.
Does this help?
Same distance.
Does this help?
Posted on 3/22/14 at 11:58 pm to thejudge
So much of this depends upon the bullet type. I've seen guys hit with both 9mm and .45acp (ball ammunition). Hands down, .45 was the clear winner, but that was ball ammo.
With the many bullet types in modern times, who really knows what is "best". Heck, they all work.
Gunfighting is not as much of a science as most like to believe; it's just plain-arse unpredictable. That said, he who strikes first and fastest usually has the advantage, but there's no guarantee in that either.
With the many bullet types in modern times, who really knows what is "best". Heck, they all work.
Gunfighting is not as much of a science as most like to believe; it's just plain-arse unpredictable. That said, he who strikes first and fastest usually has the advantage, but there's no guarantee in that either.
Posted on 3/23/14 at 1:00 am to CoastieGM
It depends on far more than that. The problem with "knock down power" is that it is largely a myth. Far too many physiological and psychological variables at play. 9mm ball ammo has dropped a whole lot of people in their tracks so there is no such thing as a clear winner there. Going by the available data you are just as likely to die being shot by even much lower powered pistol cartridges as you would by the so-called traditional "man stoppers".
Posted on 3/23/14 at 3:57 am to Clames
quote:
The problem with "knock down power" is that it is largely a myth.
Agree. There is no true knockdown power.
There is stopping power though. And that comes from the barrel of a rifle or shotgun.
Posted on 3/23/14 at 7:12 am to bapple
In 45acp one could easily and safely load:
185gr load pushed to 1250fps
200gr load pushed to 1150fps
230gr load pushed to 1050fps
Mass and velocity in one package.
185gr load pushed to 1250fps
200gr load pushed to 1150fps
230gr load pushed to 1050fps
Mass and velocity in one package.
Posted on 3/23/14 at 9:54 am to H.M. Murdock
Through the arm?
Gut/pelvic shot win with either
Gut/pelvic shot win with either
Posted on 3/23/14 at 12:37 pm to DanTiger
Modern defensive ammunition has greatly improved the effectiveness of pistol rounds and has decreased the performance gap between rounds.
Assuming all things are equal, .45 is still going to display better ballistics with the same bullet design. However, the difference is not nearly as significant as it once was and it is almost certainly outweighed by the ability to carry more ammunition and place faster follow-up shots (as well as a few other factors).
Unless you want a 1911, simply prefer the .45, or have other needs (shooting suppressed), I would generally always recommend a 9mm.
Assuming all things are equal, .45 is still going to display better ballistics with the same bullet design. However, the difference is not nearly as significant as it once was and it is almost certainly outweighed by the ability to carry more ammunition and place faster follow-up shots (as well as a few other factors).
Unless you want a 1911, simply prefer the .45, or have other needs (shooting suppressed), I would generally always recommend a 9mm.
This post was edited on 3/24/14 at 1:40 am
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