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Message
re: Chickens and HOA’s Are There Any Attorneys On The Board?
Posted on 6/20/18 at 8:14 am to NYCAuburn
Posted on 6/20/18 at 8:14 am to NYCAuburn
quote:
The only ones that have issues arent going to be close to me and are going to be the idiots, like a few in here, who thinks having chickens is trashy and need to grow up.
Meh. I don't object to chickens on rural property. I would consider raising them myself in the future, so point the dirty end of that stick in some other direction, thank you very much.
What I'm not going to do is try to wedge chickens, and all the nuisance to others that involves, into a HOA covered subdivision with a restriction clearly intended to preclude the raising of chickens (or other barnyard animals).
0
Posted on 6/20/18 at 8:33 am to NYCAuburn
The reason they put animal in there is no one would bring animals like an alligator or some crazy shite and say its not listed in the contract. They clearly mean dogs and cats for the usual pets.
Posted on 6/20/18 at 8:39 am to NYCAuburn
I don't think anyone would give a rip about the chickens if they're not making noise. However, if the HOA needs a reason to make an example out of you, they will cite the chickens. That's my quick take. (not a lawyer)
Posted on 6/20/18 at 8:43 am to NYCAuburn
quote:
No animals, livestock, insects, or poultry shall be kept or maintained on any lot except the usual pets may be kept on any lot for purposes other than breeding or Commericial.
I side with the OP. The wording is ambiguous at best and I would argue that both the wording and the intent would allow for chickens to be housed on your property.
The wording says "No animals... shall be kept or maintained on any lot except the usual pets may be kept on any lot for purposes other than breeding or Commericial." This specifically says that pets may be kept for purposes other than breeding or Commercial use. The list of "livestock, insects, or poultry" is a group of examples, not inclusive or exclusive, as all of these would fall under "animals" anyway.
The obvious INTENT of the text is to prohibit disruptive, destructive animals or the use of your residence as a commercial establishment or as a breeding location. Just as you would be prohibited from breeding chickens or selling eggs from your house, you'd be prohibited from running a kennel out of your house or selling dogs from a litter.
The term "usual pets" which some people are getting hung up on is basically worthless. It isn't a commonly defined term and I think you'd have an easy time justifying and defending raising hens in a coop for personal satisfaction as pets. If they produce eggs that you consume and don't sell, then that's just a bonus.
I similarly think you could get away with raising a cow or goat and getting some milk from it.
This post was edited on 6/20/18 at 8:47 am
Posted on 6/20/18 at 8:46 am to The Last Coco
quote:
I side with the OP. The wording is ambiguous at best and I would argue is that both the wording and the intent would allow for chickens to be housed on your property.
quote:-427
The term "usual pets" which some people are getting hung up on is basically worthless. It isn't a commonly defined term and I think you'd have an easy time justifying and defending raising hens in a coop for personal satisfaction as pets. If they produce eggs that you consume and don't sell, then that's just a bonus.
I similarly think you could get away with raising a cow or goat for milk.
Posted on 6/20/18 at 8:48 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
"Usual pets" are clearly dogs, cats, pet birds and aquarium fish.
if neither word are defined then how is that clear? please elaborate since it is so clear
quote:
"Animals" is a catch all. "Livestock" implies the traditional farm mammals (horses, goats, sheep, pigs) - but you would argue a pony would be excepted, I suppose? If you're not raising it to breed or compete, right? Just to care for and ride? That's a "usual pet."
in a few different municipalities around here "house pet" was used and won. "Livestock" was used as a means to fight against chickens and lost. implying something is usually easily fought in court from what I have seen
quote:
"Poultry" is pretty specific
as is animals, meaning all.
quote:
You're going to argue that a "pet" hen is a thing. Good luck.
like stated above "house pet" was won in court, but every covenant is worded differently
quote:
It's just nonsense. Every single person with backyard hens is raising them either for their eggs, for meat, or both.
And just like service animals the definition in a court of law is vague. The pets are merely so the owners can bring them on trips.
Again, My direct neighbors will be asked and more than likely wont care. We are good friends. I more than likely wont have any issues as most people dont care in the hood. However, sometimes there is always that one guy that has issues about what they know nothing about. I am worried there might be that one and have to scrap my build. But if I can show them their horrible wording and how I can potentially fight it, they[hoa] will concede. They dont have a large op budget, its like 25k a year in revenue
Posted on 6/20/18 at 8:49 am to The Last Coco
quote:
I side with the OP. The wording is ambiguous at best and I would argue that both the wording and the intent would allow for chickens to be housed on your property.
OP says he wants to raise poultry. Guidelines say no poultry. This isn't a tough call.
Posted on 6/20/18 at 8:53 am to upgrayedd
quote:
OP says he wants to raise poultry. Guidelines say no poultry. This isn't a tough call.
Posted on 6/20/18 at 8:53 am to Coon
quote:
You're talking down saying this is bad grammar but you're just trying to read it like you want when clearly everyone else but you is reading it as intended.
Usually legal contracts are clearly defined, worded specifically and very lengthy for a reason. If you can interpret the wording and sentence structure in a certain way based upon the wording then usually its your case to win.
Posted on 6/20/18 at 8:54 am to upgrayedd
quote:
OP says he wants to raise poultry. Guidelines say no poultry. This isn't a tough call.
It also says no poultry for commercial or breeding purposes but allows for pets. I agree - this isn't a tough call. Raising chickens as pets is clearly allowed by the wording.
Posted on 6/20/18 at 8:54 am to NYCAuburn
It's pretty cut and dry to me.
I think you should put this in the OT though. Should go other well
I think you should put this in the OT though. Should go other well
Posted on 6/20/18 at 8:55 am to NYCAuburn
How would anyone know if you had birds in your backyard?
Posted on 6/20/18 at 8:55 am to upgrayedd
quote:
OP says he wants to raise poultry. Guidelines say no poultry. This isn't a tough call.
Actually it says
quote:
No animals, livestock, insects, or poultry
Do you think I would be okay to have a dog? guideline actually says "no animals"
This post was edited on 6/20/18 at 9:04 am
Posted on 6/20/18 at 8:57 am to NYCAuburn
For those who say no chickens - would he be allowed to own and raise a potbelly pig as a pet? What about an alligator? Or a snake? What about cockroaches?
Posted on 6/20/18 at 9:00 am to HotKoolaid
quote:
How would anyone know if you had birds in your backyard?
I dont really think its going to be a problem. I just want to cover my arse since its probably going to take several days to build a coup and probably kill my daughter if we had to get rid of them.
But I do live on a corner lot, on two culdesacs, but one side has about 150' of fence along the street that people walk their dogs. its a typical wood privacy fence, but they are not 100% private. if someone was nosy or trying to look at my garden(people do a lot) I might get an a-hole
This post was edited on 6/20/18 at 9:01 am
Posted on 6/20/18 at 9:00 am to The Last Coco
quote:Yes.
would he be allowed to own and raise a potbelly pig
quote:No
What about an alligator?
quote:Yes.
Or a snake?
quote:Everyone is doing that already.
What about cockroaches?
Posted on 6/20/18 at 9:05 am to AlxTgr
quote:
AlxTgr
So you're going to say chickens are clearly outlawed because "poultry" is listed in the guidelines, but potbelly pigs are OK even though "livestock" is listed in the guidelines??
That's not consistent.
Posted on 6/20/18 at 9:07 am to The Last Coco
quote:Pot bellied pigs are known pets. I know of zero pot bellied pig lots. It's not inconsistent at all.
So you're going to say chickens are clearly outlawed because "poultry" is listed in the guidelines, but potbelly pigs are OK even though "livestock" is listed in the guidelines??
Posted on 6/20/18 at 9:09 am to NYCAuburn
quote:do what some one in my neighborhood did.... he had recurring restriction violation and kept getting letters from the HOA.....he was constantly parking his boat in his driveway which was against rules.... so he is out walking his dog and he talks to two homeowners who have constant equally glaring restriction violations - they both say they have never heard from HOA....so he finds about 15 other homes(out of 130) with constant or recurring violations -he responds to the next letter quite simply - "when the restriction violations at the following addresses (which have preceded mine) are corrected, I will correct mine.
So not sure if we have any lawyers in here. I could ask on the ot but you all know how that shite goes. Here is the text from my hoa
quote:
No animals, livestock, insects, or poultry shall be kept or maintained on any lot except the usual pets may be kept on any lot for purposes other than breeding or Commericial.
I am thinking a few backyard chickens could be considered usual pets now, they aren’t breeding if I don’t have a rooster, and if I don’t sell anything, I should be good. Obviously I’ll talk to my neighbor. We are all on .75 acre lots my half of hood backs up to nature preserve as well, so it’s not a bunch of homes stacked on each other.
he never heard back from them
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