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re: Bigger issue with killing: 50 lb Doe or 115 lb 4 pt
Posted on 5/25/11 at 7:33 am to Choirboy
Posted on 5/25/11 at 7:33 am to Choirboy
quote:
kill the buck. the doe will produce atleast 5-7 offspring in her life, possibly with a big racked gene.
We use to have a guy that thought just like that in the club that I am in, use to. It really depends on the situation and where you are hunting, I have 3 bucks on my wall that score over 140 so I would never shoot a yearling buck anyways, even if they are a good 8 point if they got that skinny neck and weigh about 100lbs I dont shoot. I hunt in north central Mississippi and we have plenty of does so there is never any reason to shoot a 50 lbs doe, even though they are tasty.
1
Posted on 5/25/11 at 7:46 am to mtb010
I'm agreeing with elf on this. A trophy is in the eyes of the man pulling the trigger. Every single last deer I have ever killed was a trophy to me, and the biggest one I have ever killed was a 15" wide 10 point, which is small by some people's standards 
Buckmasters as convinced a whole lot of people that you need to kill a deer with a huge arse rack for it to be considered a trophy. While I'm not saying if two bucks walk out I'm gonna shoot the smaller one, I do think the management shite has gotten completely out of hand. A true trophy is determined by the effort that went into getting him and the story behind it, not strictly the rack on his head.
Buckmasters as convinced a whole lot of people that you need to kill a deer with a huge arse rack for it to be considered a trophy. While I'm not saying if two bucks walk out I'm gonna shoot the smaller one, I do think the management shite has gotten completely out of hand. A true trophy is determined by the effort that went into getting him and the story behind it, not strictly the rack on his head.
This post was edited on 5/25/11 at 7:47 am
Posted on 5/25/11 at 8:00 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
A true trophy is determined by the effort that went into getting him and the story behind it, not strictly the rack on his head.
Very well said!
That being said, for those that want bigger deer on their place need to let little bucks walk. When it comes to shooting a doe, size doesn't matter except for the amount of meat you get. That's it. A doe is a doe, no matter the size. By letting the 4 pt walk, you might have a chance at him later & he could be your next "15 inch wide" 10pt.
Posted on 5/25/11 at 9:03 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:And I think the kill 'em all mentality is too wide spread.
I do think the management shite has gotten completely out of hand.
Posted on 5/25/11 at 9:05 am to Propagandalf
quote:I ate deer last night. I kill at least one doe every year. If there were a time when I could not get shots on does, that would mean I really should not shoot anything on that place. There is not one single good thing that can come from shooting a buck 3 years or under unless it's an obvious cull.
How? All I'm saying is you, along with most hunters in LA, hunt trophies. If someone wants to hunt deer instead of trophies they can shoot whatever they want. But I wouldn't expect you to understand, I bet you cut the line on bass under 5lbs too.
Its called deer season, not 8pt buck over 16in season. Let whoever's doing the shooting decide what's right for them. This should be a non-issue.
Posted on 5/25/11 at 4:40 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
There is not one single good thing that can come from shooting a buck 3 years or under unless it's an obvious cull.
If that's what makes you happy, then by all means hunt that way. I'm with the other guys, it's about more than the rack. Also, if I'm gonna spend all that money to hunt, I better have some meat to show for it. Don't be a fool your whole life.
Posted on 5/25/11 at 4:46 pm to Propagandalf
quote:
Don't be a fool your whole life.
Posted on 5/25/11 at 4:46 pm to Propagandalf
quote:
Also, if I'm gonna spend all that money to hunt, I better have some meat to show for it. Don't be a fool your whole life.
I agree that what makes a trophy differs depending on where you hunt. But you can shoot does for meat. I would never shoot a buck purely for meat, if I take 1 or 2 does a season that's more meat than I'll use in a year.
Posted on 5/25/11 at 4:47 pm to Propagandalf
No matter what the decision on shooting remember shooting either is very much like jerking off after pulling the trigger you have a mess on your hands.
Posted on 5/25/11 at 4:49 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
There is not one single good thing that can come from shooting a buck 3 years or under unless it's an obvious cull.
Meat
Posted on 5/25/11 at 4:50 pm to TigerDeacon
quote:Already have it and no one shoots all their does.
Meat
Posted on 5/25/11 at 4:53 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
shooting a buck 3 years or under unless it's an obvious cull.
How do you know it's under 3 years old?
quote:
. Accuracy for a sample of known-age mandibles aged by eruption-wear criteria was 62.3% for mule deer, 42.9% for whitetails, and 36% for elk”. “The accuracy for individual biologists ranged from 54.7-71.7% for mule deer and 23.8-66.7% for whitetail deer” “This aging was done by 4 biologists from Montana and 2 from Washington considered to be experienced in aging deer used eruption-wear to age these mandibles…”. Cementum annuli aging yielded a 92.6% accuracy rate for mule deer (with no error over 1 year), 85.1% accuracy rate for whitetails (only 2 in error over 1 year) and 97.3% accuracy rate for elk.
I can sit here and poke holes in the management theories till the cows come home. BIOLOGIST experienced in jaw bone analysis are only 66% percent accurate on aging deer. Aging a deer on the hoof is virtually impossible. You can tell if it's old as dirt or very young. You cannot tell in between.
LINK
Also, alot can come from shooting a 115lb 4 point. It could be a kids first deer. It could be late in the year and the only deer the guy's seen all year. The guy might want to process and give away a deer. It could be the guy's first bow kill. There's a ton of reasons to enjoy killing a 4 point. I've killed a few and let a few walk. It's all in what I want that day.
I'm all for people managing their property however they see fit. I am, however, against the elitist attitude that often comes from people who are practicing "quality deer management."
This post was edited on 5/25/11 at 4:58 pm
Posted on 5/25/11 at 4:56 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:You're kidding right? Bucks under 3 are obvious. Telling 3.5 from 4.5 or 5.5 from 6.5 is tricky.
How do you know it's under 3 years old?
quote:
can sit here and poke holes in the management theories till the cows come home
No, you really cannot.
Posted on 5/25/11 at 5:00 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
No, you really cannot.
I could, but I'm not gonna waste my time. You have established yourself in my mind as somebody who cannot be proven wrong no matter the argument. You would make a wonderful OT poster
Posted on 5/25/11 at 5:01 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:When I do not know what I'm talking about(hint hint) I shut the frick up.
I could, but I'm not gonna waste my time. You have established yourself in my mind as somebody who cannot be proven wrong no matter the argument
Posted on 5/25/11 at 5:04 pm to AlxTgr
I have places to go tonight. I'm all game for continuing this later if you could tolerate turning it into a semi-intelligent conversation.
Posted on 5/25/11 at 5:11 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Sure, but semi is about as far as i can go.
Posted on 5/25/11 at 5:19 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
Sure, but semi is about as far as i can go.
TWSS
Posted on 5/25/11 at 5:20 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
semi is about as far as i can go
So you do in fact have alot of OT in you
I'm cool with that. I'm always down for learning new shite. If you're gonna call me incorrect though, give me some specifics. I don't like being told I am wrong without being told what is right. It looks like you are just disagreeing for the sake of being an arse and not actually presenting any facts or an argument.
This post was edited on 5/25/11 at 5:21 pm
Posted on 5/25/11 at 5:33 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
I can accurately age 90% of deer provided I have several pictures of the deer. I can accurately age 95% of deer I get the jawbone out of. You posting bullshite articles is just making you look dumb.
Management isn't for everyone, but its necessary if you want a healthy deer heard. Most people manage their deer just for that, healthy deer. Most people that I know who manage choose to shoot deer that are mature rather than off antler size. I'd much rather shoot a 140" 8 point that is 7.5 than shoot a 150" 10 that is 3.5.
Now I'm all for getting and keeping hunters in the woods, I choose to shoot mature deer. I don't care what you shoot as long as it's within the law. You shouldn't run down people who want to manage their deer just because you don't like it, and you damn sure need to stop posting your bullshite misinformation on people not being able to age deer before you lose all credibility.
Management isn't for everyone, but its necessary if you want a healthy deer heard. Most people manage their deer just for that, healthy deer. Most people that I know who manage choose to shoot deer that are mature rather than off antler size. I'd much rather shoot a 140" 8 point that is 7.5 than shoot a 150" 10 that is 3.5.
Now I'm all for getting and keeping hunters in the woods, I choose to shoot mature deer. I don't care what you shoot as long as it's within the law. You shouldn't run down people who want to manage their deer just because you don't like it, and you damn sure need to stop posting your bullshite misinformation on people not being able to age deer before you lose all credibility.
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