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re: Bigger issue with killing: 50 lb Doe or 115 lb 4 pt
Posted on 5/25/11 at 7:25 pm to Rebman601
Posted on 5/25/11 at 7:25 pm to Rebman601
i don't believe you. And I think we've proved you wrong with our "how old is this deer" threads where you get 50 different answers. What are you gonna do, get the deer's birth certificate and prove everyone wrong?
If you are trying to maintain only a healthy herd, why only shoot mature bucks and have no discretion on does? Why not wait to see how the does mature to see which deer will produce the best offspring? I mean that's 50% of the DNA.
If you are trying to maintain only a healthy herd, why only shoot mature bucks and have no discretion on does? Why not wait to see how the does mature to see which deer will produce the best offspring? I mean that's 50% of the DNA.
3
Posted on 5/25/11 at 7:46 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
If you're gonna call me incorrect though, give me some specifics. I don't like being told I am wrong without being told what is right. It looks like you are just disagreeing for the sake of being an arse and not actually presenting any facts or an argument.
Not sure how I can explain how you're wrong on aging other than what I've already said. No one that has put any time at all in aging deer is going to miss the under 3 deer. They look a certain way overall, and are small. I never said anyone could tell one age class from another reliably past 3.
Posted on 5/25/11 at 7:47 pm to Propagandalf
Didn't read the full thread but I'd say it depends on what your goal is. Not only for your hunt but for the future of your land. Myself, I'm shooting the yearling doe. If my son is hunting he can shoot the buck. We manage our heard but not to the point of taking the fun out of it.
Posted on 5/25/11 at 7:48 pm to Propagandalf
quote:
If you are trying to maintain only a healthy herd, why only shoot mature bucks and have no discretion on does? Why not wait to see how the does mature to see which deer will produce the best offspring? I mean that's 50% of the DNA.
You're missing a few points. It's not all about an attempt at genetics. It's about ratios and letting your bucks get some age on them. There is no way for most hunters or clubs to do anything with does the way you describe.
Posted on 5/25/11 at 8:23 pm to AlxTgr
quote:This
We manage our heard but not to the point of taking the fun out of it.
quote:And this
You're missing a few points. It's not all about an attempt at genetics. It's about ratios and letting your bucks get some age on them. There is no way for most hunters or clubs to do anything with does the way you describe.
Posted on 5/25/11 at 8:41 pm to Boats n Hose
quote:
You're missing a few points. It's not all about an attempt at genetics. It's about ratios and letting your bucks get some age on them. There is no way for most hunters or clubs to do anything with does the way you describe.
Without reading the rest of this thread (been busy the past couple days), I would have to say that I agree with alx. The only reason I could possibly come up with that you would pass on a 50lb doe and shoot a young buck is just in case the doe is in fact a button head. But that would make no sense either. Even if you are simply going for head count, the young buck has a better chance of surviving predators or a hard winter (outside of La). So you're still better killing the doe.
Don't know how you can argue anything else.
Posted on 5/25/11 at 8:59 pm to Propagandalf
I don't give a frick what you believe. Deer have teeth, they lose teeth at a certain age which helps identify some of them to be a certain age. And the rest I can tell from the wear on the teeth how old they are until they get to 7+ then it's too tough to tell.
If I'm managing a property and I get an "inventory" of the deer from a game camera. I will know more than likely what age class nearly every deer is. It's not that hard. I know several others who do the same
You try to take out mature does also. There is absolutely no way to tell your superior does. You manage a property to have healthy deer, not to have the biggest racked deer, that is just a benefit of practicing management.
If I'm managing a property and I get an "inventory" of the deer from a game camera. I will know more than likely what age class nearly every deer is. It's not that hard. I know several others who do the same
You try to take out mature does also. There is absolutely no way to tell your superior does. You manage a property to have healthy deer, not to have the biggest racked deer, that is just a benefit of practicing management.
Posted on 5/25/11 at 9:03 pm to Rebman601
Wow ..fighting in another thread 
My only issue is grill or gravy.
My only issue is grill or gravy.
Posted on 5/25/11 at 9:14 pm to INFIDEL
quote:
Don't know how you can argue anything else.
Posted on 5/25/11 at 9:19 pm to Boats n Hose
quote:
Don't know how you can argue anything else.
Posted on 5/25/11 at 9:20 pm to Cadello
quote:Chad's on a roll with the controversial threads
Wow ..fighting in another thread
Posted on 5/25/11 at 11:50 pm to Rebman601
Ight put ya dukes up. I'm back.
I have NOTHING against it whatsoever. Absolutely not the first thing. I think I said that earlier in this thread somewhere. It's your place, so manage it how you see fit. If that's shooting everything with brown hair or only deer over 150" is up to you. I'm trying to learn something here from the people who try the "shooting mature deer" thing. I'm on the other side of the fence. I shoot what I am happy to shoot, be it a 4 point or a 12 point. I like hearing all sides of every argument, which is what I'm fishing for.
The only people I put down are the ones with the elitist attitude that some get from thinking that, since they only shoot big deer, those who don't are below them.
My link is from deerage.com, a website run by Wildlife Analytical Laboratories. They sell aging kits to deer ranches if I remember correctly. They are a reputable source IMO. I have no credibility to loose here anyway, so take it for what it's worth. It's a message board and I'm just a semi-educated outdoorsmen. I just call it like I see it.
Depends on where you are. We do not manage our deer in the way I believe you are talking about. Everybody who hunts is managing to some extent, but I don't think what we do is considered management by most. Sometimes we let small bucks walk, sometimes we blast spikes, we always kill a good many does, and we have a very healthy heard. Every deer we kill is in good shape, and you very rarely see a doe without a yearling. As somebody who fools with cows alot, this defines a healthy heard in my book. This is accomplished with no management. I'm sure it depends more on location, size of property, amount of hunters, etc more than anything else.
quote:
You shouldn't run down people who want to manage their deer just because you don't like it
I have NOTHING against it whatsoever. Absolutely not the first thing. I think I said that earlier in this thread somewhere. It's your place, so manage it how you see fit. If that's shooting everything with brown hair or only deer over 150" is up to you. I'm trying to learn something here from the people who try the "shooting mature deer" thing. I'm on the other side of the fence. I shoot what I am happy to shoot, be it a 4 point or a 12 point. I like hearing all sides of every argument, which is what I'm fishing for.
The only people I put down are the ones with the elitist attitude that some get from thinking that, since they only shoot big deer, those who don't are below them.
quote:
and you damn sure need to stop posting your bullshite misinformation on people not being able to age deer before you lose all credibility.
My link is from deerage.com, a website run by Wildlife Analytical Laboratories. They sell aging kits to deer ranches if I remember correctly. They are a reputable source IMO. I have no credibility to loose here anyway, so take it for what it's worth. It's a message board and I'm just a semi-educated outdoorsmen. I just call it like I see it.
quote:
Management isn't for everyone, but its necessary if you want a healthy deer heard
Depends on where you are. We do not manage our deer in the way I believe you are talking about. Everybody who hunts is managing to some extent, but I don't think what we do is considered management by most. Sometimes we let small bucks walk, sometimes we blast spikes, we always kill a good many does, and we have a very healthy heard. Every deer we kill is in good shape, and you very rarely see a doe without a yearling. As somebody who fools with cows alot, this defines a healthy heard in my book. This is accomplished with no management. I'm sure it depends more on location, size of property, amount of hunters, etc more than anything else.
Posted on 5/26/11 at 12:21 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
I shoot what I am happy to shoot, be it a 4 point or a 12 point. I like hearing all sides of every argument, which is what I'm fishing for.
I'm all for shooting something you're proud of when it comes to taking bucks. We don't really manage our lease per se, we follow Mississippi rules. 12" inside spread or 15" main beams. (I was really glad when they changed the rules, and you can tell we have a lot more quality bucks walking around the property now)
I'm not looking for a pissing match on proper herd management, too each his own. I have a bunch of friends who hunt in the swamp on management land around here and I understand decent bucks are really hard to come by. I guess my only issue is with guys shooting really small bucks who seem like they should know better. Like the guys who have been hunting for 30+ years and still take a couple spikes or really young bucks every season. After killing deer for that long I don't see how some guys can shoot any buck that moves and still call themselves a sportsman.
Posted on 5/26/11 at 5:21 am to FelicianaTigerfan
quote:
Didn't read the full thread but I'd say it depends on what your goal is. Not only for your hunt but for the future of your land. Myself, I'm shooting the yearling doe. If my son is hunting he can shoot the buck. We manage our heard but not to the point of taking the fun out of it.
I didn't read the full thread myself, but thru the years as a big game hunter that was aways looking for the one monster buck, I came to terms that I was putting to much into hunting and NOT enjoying myself.
So now, I will drop a 50lb doe way before I would even shot any buck. In fact, if it comes down to shooting any deer, I will anyways look for a doe that has two yearlins and shoot one of them and let the moma and other yearlin walk away. Why would one kill off there breaders? If you ever had cows, one knows you don't sell off your good breaders.
Reason is that I think that by doing that, I give the other yearlin a better chance to live. Also, I'm old,my teeth are old along with my guts and I need tender meat to eat!
Now I have a way better deer heard running on my place then I had 30 years ago!Posted on 5/26/11 at 5:29 am to fishfighter
quote:
If you ever had cows, one knows you don't sell off your good breaders.
Oh, the old tried and true momma cow, baby cow theory of deer management.
I understand what you're saying about taking the fun out of it, but some people find pleasure in different things. I also understand what you're saying about yearlings being delicious. This again is true. My problem with your yearling theory, is that you may be shooting a doe and you may be shooting a buck. If you are all about doing the right thing, then let all three go. Or you can just shoot a yearling and enjoy yourself. I mean, you're probably just doing it for the meat, huh? At about $300 dollars a pound that tender yearling isn't gong to taste as good though. If your teeth are that bad, go to super one and buy some ground round. It's a hell of a lot cheaper and your ole gums will thank you. To each his own, as long as you're hunting on your own.
Posted on 5/26/11 at 5:49 am to INFIDEL
quote:
Now I have a way better deer heard running on my place then I had 30 years ago!
And why do you think this is? Serious question.
Posted on 5/26/11 at 7:50 am to INFIDEL
Always shoot mama. The yearlings will have no trouble, even in late rut areas. Plus, killing mom increases the chance that a young buck stays on your property dramatically.
Posted on 5/26/11 at 9:57 am to INFIDEL
quote:
momma cow, baby cow theory of deer management
Are cows not a relatively accurate comparison to base your deer management on?
Posted on 5/26/11 at 10:23 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
They are if they are eating natural forage exclusively, fending for themselves, no vet care, no selective breeding, open range........so no. No, they are not remotely the same thing.
Posted on 5/26/11 at 10:30 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:If you desire a 100 to 1 ratio, sure
Are cows not a relatively accurate comparison to base your deer management on?
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