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Posted on 5/23/13 at 2:14 pm to Wooly
Yay! this thread again!
If you are an inexperienced shooter: 9mm
If you have shot a lot and are very comfortable with a handgun: .40
If you are an inexperienced shooter: 9mm
If you have shot a lot and are very comfortable with a handgun: .40
Posted on 5/23/13 at 2:16 pm to DrTyger
quote:
If you are an inexperienced shooter: 9mm
thats the reason i am leaning 9mm. inexperienced and they are cheaper
Posted on 5/23/13 at 2:20 pm to Wooly
Also, for CC I think there are more of the smaller framed guns in 9mm. So if you aren't comfortable carrying a big model like a 1911, a 9mm will probably be your best bet.
Posted on 5/23/13 at 2:21 pm to Wooly
Can anyone tell me which bullet belongs to which gelatin sample?
A)
B)
C)
This last on is a 55g Urban .223 load for comparison:
A = .40 cal
B = 9mm
C = .45 cal
My opinion from a straight law enforcement perspective, is that given the choice between 9mm and .40 cal is that 9mm is superior. Why?
In the FBI test barriers it penetrates better. Above is the bare gelatin tests. See the barrier tests here. The nine penetrates slightly better through heavy clothing, sheet metal, and glass (especially glass) than the .40 cal. Those are of particular interest because those are the barriers I'm most likely to encounter. Now you are saying, you said the nine is SUPERIOR but you said it only penetrates slightly better. Take into account other issues from a LEO perspective.
1. Number of rounds carried. I can carry more with the 9 over .40.
2. Weight. I can carry more rounds and they weigh less.
3. Cost. They are cheaper. On a department basis this counts. I'll take more live fire training anyway I can get it. Even on my own dime.
4. Recoil. Not from a that person is a pussy perspective, but on the follow up shots perspective.
5. In AL we qualify from 25 yards and in. Where I work we train farther out than that. 9 shoots flatter. If you are shooting farther you are in a bad spot to begin with till you get to a long gun, make it easier. (.357 sig is the $hit in this discussion, but that is another can of worms)
Pistols are defensive weapons. They punch holes so your marksmanship better have you able to punch the holes where they can do the most good to stop a threat. If I knew in advance I was going to a gun fight I would have my rifle and the debate over pistol caliber would be irrelevant. Just my take.
A)
B)
C)
This last on is a 55g Urban .223 load for comparison:
A = .40 cal
B = 9mm
C = .45 cal
My opinion from a straight law enforcement perspective, is that given the choice between 9mm and .40 cal is that 9mm is superior. Why?
In the FBI test barriers it penetrates better. Above is the bare gelatin tests. See the barrier tests here. The nine penetrates slightly better through heavy clothing, sheet metal, and glass (especially glass) than the .40 cal. Those are of particular interest because those are the barriers I'm most likely to encounter. Now you are saying, you said the nine is SUPERIOR but you said it only penetrates slightly better. Take into account other issues from a LEO perspective.
1. Number of rounds carried. I can carry more with the 9 over .40.
2. Weight. I can carry more rounds and they weigh less.
3. Cost. They are cheaper. On a department basis this counts. I'll take more live fire training anyway I can get it. Even on my own dime.
4. Recoil. Not from a that person is a pussy perspective, but on the follow up shots perspective.
5. In AL we qualify from 25 yards and in. Where I work we train farther out than that. 9 shoots flatter. If you are shooting farther you are in a bad spot to begin with till you get to a long gun, make it easier. (.357 sig is the $hit in this discussion, but that is another can of worms)
Pistols are defensive weapons. They punch holes so your marksmanship better have you able to punch the holes where they can do the most good to stop a threat. If I knew in advance I was going to a gun fight I would have my rifle and the debate over pistol caliber would be irrelevant. Just my take.
This post was edited on 5/23/13 at 2:23 pm
Posted on 5/23/13 at 2:22 pm to FightinTigersDammit
I like James Yeager and he raises some good points. The biggest point he makes "they are so close to one another that one really isn't superior to another"... The. Goes on to list reasons HE PREFERS the 9mm. Good reasoning, but really it's all about preference in this situation.
Posted on 5/23/13 at 2:22 pm to Five0
Completely unrelated, but I love watching ballistic gel tests on youtube.
Continue thread.
Continue thread.
Posted on 5/23/13 at 2:25 pm to Five0
What's a good price for an m&p? The cheapest I've seen around Nola is 519-529 for the 40. Saw the same price at the gun show this weekend and some places in BR
Posted on 5/23/13 at 2:27 pm to RBWilliams8
The part I was referring to was when Yeager said, "The .40 cal is a compromise round, and who compromises? Guys with little dicks." 
Posted on 5/23/13 at 2:27 pm to Wooly
Get the 9mm... if you want something that shoots a .40 like .40 should be shot buy a 10mm.
Posted on 5/23/13 at 2:27 pm to boom roasted
quote:
Completely unrelated, but I love watching ballistic gel tests on youtube. Continue thread.
Posted on 5/23/13 at 2:29 pm to yodaddyroberto
If I buy new, I buy from a LEO Distribution vendor or directly from the manufacturer, so my prices would be on the very low side. For example, I got my M&P Shield in 9mm for $360 out the door. Anything under $500 I would jump on. I'll have to check the prices around B'ham, AL this weekend while I'm off. Unless you are in dire need of a gun right this minute, I would wait. I think the used gun market is going to be flooded when all this hysteria is over.
Posted on 5/23/13 at 2:37 pm to Five0
can a citizen get LEO prices? there was somewhere in laffy that i found a M&P for like $470
Posted on 5/23/13 at 2:41 pm to Wooly
If you're first responder or military you can get LEO pricing.
Posted on 5/23/13 at 2:49 pm to DrTyger
im neither, but i thought barneys in Laffy sells at LEO prices
Posted on 5/23/13 at 2:50 pm to Five0
quote:
In the FBI test barriers it penetrates better. Above is the bare gelatin tests. See the barrier tests here.
Correct Link for Barrier Tests
Looks like .308 is NOT the round to be hit with! Now I just need a .308 Judge
Posted on 5/23/13 at 2:52 pm to Wooly
Not that I'm aware of. When I order from a manufacturer, I have a co-worker that is a licensed dealer. If I order from a manufacturer that he has not set up an agreement with he always sells to me at his cost. Says it is worth it to add another manufacturer to his business list. Worked out really well when I wanted a couple of DPMS rifles.
Posted on 5/23/13 at 2:52 pm to Five0
quote:
Unless you are in dire need of a gun right this minute, I would wait. I think the used gun market is going to be flooded when all this hysteria is over
More like a dire want than need. They are selling for those prices though cause the guns don't last on the shelf
Posted on 5/23/13 at 2:53 pm to PvilleP
quote:
Looks like .308 is NOT the round to be hit with!
Correct. Hornady makes some .308 that will go through.....well a lot and still ruin your day. One of those rifles I got from DPMS at cost was:
My Precious
This post was edited on 5/23/13 at 2:55 pm
Posted on 5/23/13 at 2:58 pm to Five0
I went through the same debate. I shot both the 9mm and 40 through an HK at the shooting range. The recoil felt the same to me. So I choose the 40. I wanted the power.
The best 9mm ammo has the same power as the cheap 40 ammo
The best 40 ammo has the same power as the cheap 45 ammo.
Best ammo in 40 ammo >> best ammo in 9mm ammo
.
The best 9mm ammo has the same power as the cheap 40 ammo
The best 40 ammo has the same power as the cheap 45 ammo.
Best ammo in 40 ammo >> best ammo in 9mm ammo
.
This post was edited on 5/23/13 at 3:00 pm
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