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re: Would you argue that Carl Sagan’s Pale Blue Dot and subsequent writings…
Posted on 8/4/25 at 9:32 pm to aTmTexas Dillo
Posted on 8/4/25 at 9:32 pm to aTmTexas Dillo
Complex life took over four billion years to evolve here on Earth once the planet settled down to an environment that was sustainable to complex life. So we're talking a third of the life of the known universe, and heavy metals for complex life had to born from the death of some of the first stars.
If it has taken that long for life to evolve here, there's a very real chance that there may not be more than one intelligent civilization in any galaxy throughout the cosmos, and that is all the meaning any of us should need to realize just how special this planet and we are.
If it has taken that long for life to evolve here, there's a very real chance that there may not be more than one intelligent civilization in any galaxy throughout the cosmos, and that is all the meaning any of us should need to realize just how special this planet and we are.
1
Posted on 8/4/25 at 9:36 pm to fr33manator
quote:
All I know is that Cosmos is AWESOME to watch at night as you are trying to fall asleep. Fascinating and soothing
What platform?
Posted on 8/4/25 at 9:37 pm to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
some faint signal to us.
But what kind of signal? Is it something we'd even think to detect? With the telescopes with the wavelength detection we have deployed now, it's feasible, but we sent a LASER DISC to Pluto in the 70s. Most people don't have DVD/BluRay drives anymore.
Posted on 8/4/25 at 9:37 pm to fr33manator
quote:
All I know is that Cosmos is AWESOME to watch at night as you are trying to fall asleep. Fascinating and soothing
If you enjoy Cosmos, I would suggest giving How the Universe Works on HBO a go. I enjoyed it thoroughly.
Posted on 8/4/25 at 9:39 pm to cgrand
quote:
non sequitur to Sagan, but do you know why we have coal deposits in the first place? Coal is undigested lignin (trees). Trees don’t go undigested today, if they did the entire land surface of the planet would be buried in dead trees. So why is there coal underground?
Because trees evolved as lignin allowed them to be structurally sound enough to grow tall. But there wasn’t a fungi capable of digesting lignin which is one of toughest organic compounds ever to exist. So for millions and millions of years, dead tree matter compounded on the surface and was eventually buried, and became coal, and in the meantime a fungus evolved to eat lignin.
I know all this. Without being boring, I studied this geology and chemistry in college extensively. I could have pointed out carbon rich asteroid or carbon rich meteorites and not chosen another Kingdom/ phylum on earth, as all are with carbon based chemistry but I think you get my point. Every element in our bodies is the product of fusion in long dead stars in a galaxy full of stars present and past. In our case for some reason, these elements formed life.
Posted on 8/4/25 at 9:40 pm to CollegeFBRules
If you can imagine a being powerful enough to bend reality, be that a deity, a supercomputer, or whatever, it would be trivial for them/it to create a universe yesterday that looks like it's billions of years old. If it sounds like I'm arguing for creationism, well maybe a little bit, but more that we may not know as much about the nature of reality as we think we do. See my post about Donald Hoffman earlier in the thread.
Posted on 8/4/25 at 9:41 pm to forkedintheroad
quote:
Can't wait to hear what is more objective than that which is observed.
Are you saying it is an observed fact that the Earth is the center of the universe?
Posted on 8/4/25 at 9:43 pm to CollegeFBRules
Great thread!
Just saying hello, buddy!
Just saying hello, buddy!
Posted on 8/4/25 at 9:45 pm to CollegeFBRules
it is a matter of perspective. If the universe is expanding infinitely (which it appears to be doing, with it the confines of what we are able to observe and comprehend), then any “center” is strictly the prerogative of the observer. We are only capable of observation from our perspective, so we are the “center” as far as that goes. In this case though the “center” does not confer any special relevance
Posted on 8/4/25 at 9:45 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
If you can imagine a being powerful enough to bend reality, be that a deity, a supercomputer, or whatever, it would be trivial for them/it to create a universe yesterday that looks like it's billions of years old. If it sounds like I'm arguing for creationism, well maybe a little bit, but more that we may not know as much about the nature of reality as we think we do. See my post about Donald Hoffman earlier in the thread.
I'm all for objective reality, but the universe as a simulation is something that exists in theory and beyond the ability to prove. I don't tend to ponder that because it doesn't interest me to consider that, but obviously it cannot be written off.
I don't find God / creationism / or the Big Bang easier or harder to believe one over the other. They all require elements of faith, and then it becomes where you draw that faith from. The Cosmic Microwave Background is the strongest proof to me that we started at the Big Bang and the red shift of universes tells me that science has some idea of what's going on, even if that is the very beginning seedling of understanding.
Posted on 8/4/25 at 9:46 pm to MSMHater
quote:
Great thread!
Just saying hello, buddy!
WHAT IS UP, MY BROTHER!!!!
Posted on 8/4/25 at 9:47 pm to cgrand
quote:
it is a matter of perspective. If the universe is expanding infinitely (which it appears to be doing, with it the confines of what we are able to observe and comprehend), then any “center” is strictly the prerogative of the observer. We are only capable of observation from our perspective, so we are the “center” as far as that goes. In this case though the “center” does not confer any special relevance
I figured this was the argument and had the question asked - are you the center of the world because that is where you observe it from - but figured I would see where he was coming from first.
But, to your point, I see what you are saying.
Posted on 8/4/25 at 10:05 pm to Zephyrius
quote:
Earth is the center of the universe which is not an insignificant thing. The science has to make the earth insignificant because they don’t want to face the implications of an earth centered universe.
Pope Urban VIII called, he wants his scientific views back.
Posted on 8/4/25 at 10:08 pm to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
I refer you to the Fermi Paradox
Which is nothing but a thought experiment at this point. There are multiple ways to argue around ie Dark Forest, The Great Filter, or The Zoo.
Posted on 8/4/25 at 10:13 pm to Obtuse1
All of this has happened before…and all of this will happen again.
Posted on 8/4/25 at 10:59 pm to CollegeFBRules
It’s a little of both. We should know our place in the universe, and if we aspire to greater heights we should recognize the journey we need to make
Posted on 8/5/25 at 12:35 am to CollegeFBRules
quote:
Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light.
Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.
The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.
Sounds like a pretty privileged position be in if you ask me
Posted on 8/5/25 at 1:26 am to LemmyLives
quote:
I remember a lot of that kind of talking down that got done when I was a kid. It was after the rash of apocalyptic environmental shite (Silent Spring, the China Syndrome, etc.) that flooded every weekly mag. I get why they spoke to us that way, and I dislike it. But, still a lot of good info generally, and it was before the climate change (warming, not cooling) fiasco, and it was a bit more pure in comparison. I don't hate Sagan for it, it's just what everyone else was doing. But it's not bullshite in the face of data in hand like we have now (COVID, climate change, etc.) when people continue to spew BS in the face of it.
Posted on 8/5/25 at 2:16 am to CollegeFBRules
I like the Sagan quote:” If you want to bake a cake from scratch first you must create the universe.”
Posted on 8/5/25 at 2:24 am to Sidicous
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe
Carl Sagan “A Glorious Dawn” song
Carl Sagan “A Glorious Dawn” song
This post was edited on 8/5/25 at 2:26 am
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