re: Would our founding fathers be proud of America as it is today?

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Would our founding fathers be proud of America as it is today?

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Our politicians have been wearing red coats my entire life.

I think most people realize it, that's why they elected trump because they thought he would be different because he's an "outsider".

The truth is our entire system of government is set up to reward corruption.

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I think you have to be very careful of romanticizing periods of history.

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It's not romanticizing anything. It's literally laid out word for word, in their own words, in the documents, to include the philosophers like Locke and Rousseau who influenced their thinking on what this country should be.

It's not a tweet. It's thousands of pages of very detailed political and philosophical arguments.

Laughable to think this.

I don’t disagree with what you are saying, I’m painting a much more broad argument where you are getting into the specific details. I’ll tap out.
My original point was just that our founders weren’t some all wise all knowing prophets. They were just men who saw an opportunity and went for it. It really doesn’t matter what they would think if they could see our country today. It’s not theirs anymore

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^^^^ Theres the commie again

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I’m a gun toting, bible clinging conservative who thinks the free market is the best thing about the United States and when given the choice the private option is better then the government option every time.

You’re better then me, I can live with it. Have a nice Saturday

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By educator I hope you mean you’re a PE teacher

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Its sad, but he more than likely teaches American History in a University.

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Yes, pretty much. They felt like they should rule themselves. Are you arguing that?

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They were just men who saw an opportunity and went for it.

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I will argue that it wasn’t simply they who felt injury from the King, but the residents of the colonies, and it wasn’t some random day a bunch of founding fathers got up and said “hey, let’s rule ourselves instead of England”. It was a long process over many years that this took place, and the overwhelming majority closely identified with England, but it was a series of happenings that brought that to a boil and people finally said enough is enough.

If you’re arguing that these founders were in some way wanting to rule themselves all along and looking for an excuse to do so, then that isn’t rooted in anything factual of the times. Most of them would have much rather been seeing to their own private enterprises than serving on a congress, which was seen more of a duty they had to perform than an opportunity for advancement or a career of any sort. They already enjoyed almost complete freedom from all interference from England in governing their own affairs until circumstances caused things to boil over and England decided to come down hard on the colonies, especially in sending massive amounts of troops into Boston some 8 years prior to the Declaration being signed. There were also incidents impacting colonial prosperity which also caused people to begin to see the crown as their enemy and not their ally.

There were many things that brought the revolution to fruition, but to say these were power hungry men, or opportunists looking for an opportunity to rule themselves out of the blue is complete and utter bullshite. The colonies saw themselves as British Colonialists aligned with England without question and for a long time, UNTIL, until King George started pushing buttons and coming down hard on the colonies, and then they decided they had to take action, but it wasn’t overnight. This began many years before anyone signed a document to declare independence, and even then it was deliberated over rigorously.

I completely agree but all of that is adding context. My comments didn’t use context, instead were very matter of fact to the original question. I don’t think all of that information was relevant to the original question.

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this how they envisioned what this country would become?

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Probably not. But that could be said for literally every other government.

The future generations determine what America will be. The Founders should be respected not worshipped. They knew there would be differences in ideology as they most likely knew about the rise and fall of other great empires like Rome and Macedonia.