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Posted on 12/7/16 at 5:16 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
Like O'Neal and Hayes?
dude, if one of the big question was always if Hayes came out the car with the gun in his hand, and his opposition doesn't even acknowledge seeing him come out with a gun, where exactly does that threat fit into the prosecution's narrative?
You had people on the scene describe what they saw, and it wasn't as simple as the cliffnotes in which Hayes told McCaw. Which was
quote:
"Cardell says I got out the car with the gun in my hand. He said he was going to get his gun. What was I supposed to do."
There was stuff in between. People under oath on the scene have said as much. Details and context are important
Posted on 12/7/16 at 5:20 pm to Lester Earl
yeah thats the big hangup for me. someone would have seen the gun. we have heard from 4-5 people, we have heard about pointing in faces, hand checking... it just doesnt add up. Its definitely the most damning thing up to this point since it came from his mouth. How stupid is the prosecution though? it seems like they would have coached these witnesses to say he had the gun out. if they did this case would be over IMO.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 5:20 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
if one of the big question was always if Hayes came out the car with the gun in his hand, and his opposition doesn't even acknowledge seeing him come out with a gun, where exactly does that threat fit into the prosecution's narrative?
Up to this point in testimony we can only say that the off duty cop said Hayes told him he exited his vehicle with a gun.
No other witness that the prosecution has put on the stand has stated that they seen Hayes with a gun.
Moving forward this is pretty big to the case if the prosecution is trying to say Hayes was the aggressor.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 5:20 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
From O'Neal's mouth:
quote:
“What kind of person,” Kevin asks one day, “sees a guy like Bear, someone that big, standing there with a gun, and keeps coming at him?”
i'll allow this in regards to winning an internet argument, but this hasn't be in play in the court room, which is obviously more important
Posted on 12/7/16 at 5:21 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
dude, if one of the big question was always if Hayes came out the car with the gun in his hand,
quote:
"Cardell says I got out the car with the gun in my hand. He said he was going to get his gun. What was I supposed to do."
quote:
and his opposition doesn't even acknowledge seeing him come out with a gun,
I've already addressed this
quote:
There was stuff in between.
Stuff in between him getting out of the car with his gun in hand and the shooting?
Well no shite. That is some great detective work. Way to read those context clues.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 5:22 pm to diat150
quote:
How stupid is the prosecution though? it seems like they would have coached these witnesses to say he had the gun out. if they did this case would be over IMO.
They should be coached to commit perjury if they didn't see the gun?
Posted on 12/7/16 at 5:23 pm to TigerFred
quote:
the off duty cop said Hayes told him he exited his vehicle with a gun.
Off duty cop who was drinking at the Half Moon at that. Alcohol can change peoples memories
Posted on 12/7/16 at 5:23 pm to TigerBait1127
why would no other witness say hayes had a gun?
Posted on 12/7/16 at 5:24 pm to diat150
Been busy af today. Can someone give me a recap?
Posted on 12/7/16 at 5:24 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
did he get out with the gun concealed?
If it was concealed he would have had one hand behind his back.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 5:25 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
They should be coached to commit perjury if they didn't see the gun?
I was joking about that but I find it hard to believe that 5 other people didnt see a gun. a rather large handgun at that.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 5:26 pm to TigerFred
quote:
No other witness that the prosecution has put on the stand has stated that they seen Hayes with a gun.
Hard to miss a .45 in someone's hands, right?
I don't doubt he exited the H2 with the gun, Im not sure he was swinging it around from the onset.
Could he have had it concealed then pulled it?
Posted on 12/7/16 at 5:26 pm to diat150
Mr Touchy already addressed that, apparently
Posted on 12/7/16 at 5:26 pm to diat150
quote:
why would no other witness say hayes had a gun?
The crazy shirtless man was on the other side of the car getting into it with Kevin
Smith was focused on her husband
Hayes, who's a big man, kept it at his side.
I certainly don't think Hayes got out the car intending to shoot Smith
How many of them were even on the driver's side of the vehicles?
This post was edited on 12/7/16 at 5:28 pm
Posted on 12/7/16 at 5:26 pm to GRIZZ
quote:
If it was concealed he would have had one hand behind his back.
thats possible, but 2 separate witnesses talk about finger pointing and hand checking. possible that he only used one hand.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 5:28 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
The crazy shirtless man was on the other side of the car getting into it with Kevin
thats not what the guy in the house said. he said that guy was going at hayes also.
smith wife was on that side, as was dooley.
pt said he had a clear view also.
This post was edited on 12/7/16 at 5:29 pm
Posted on 12/7/16 at 5:28 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Mr Touchy
where have I been touchy?
This post was edited on 12/7/16 at 5:28 pm
Posted on 12/7/16 at 5:29 pm to GRIZZ
quote:
If it was concealed he would have had one hand behind his back.
What?
He couldve left it in his waistband, or even a pocket theoretically, while having use of both hands. Chances are his pants were sagging so idk if concealing it was an option
then pulled it when smith retreated to his vehicle
Posted on 12/7/16 at 5:29 pm to TigerBait1127
you're acting like lncbox, which isnt good. i want to discuss the trial with you but not if you're going to act like a bitch
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