re: Why people think they see ghosts

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There are certain things that science hasn't exactly resolved in relation to the human experience. Morality, existence, meaning, etc.

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Those are philosophical matters.

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There are plenty of scientists who believe or at least are open to the possibility of the metaphysical.

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I believe most scientists would be open to the possibility if it was provable. You're mixing things up here.

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I wouldn't call them irrational nor do they necessarily claim that science proves their beliefs in that respect.

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I have no idea what this means.

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But the question was whether it is irrational or not, not what a certain Mr. Popper thinks about it.

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Mr. Popper? I believe that one could certainly have a viable argument in saying that it is irrational to believe in something that cannot be proven with rationality.

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Certain truths are beyond the scope of human understanding,

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Cool. Philosophical matters, again.

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I wouldn't call believing in an afterlife "irrational."



Well, it doesn't meet Karl Popper's test for distinguishing between science and pseudoscience.

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In a way it kinda does. 1st Law of Thermodynamics is that nothing can be created or destroyed but only change states. So, applying that to life: thoughts are chemical/electrical energies and therefore when life ceases to exist the thoughts must change states.

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In a way it kinda does. 1st Law of Thermodynamics is that nothing can be created or destroyed but only change states. So, applying that to life: thoughts are chemical/electrical energies and therefore when life ceases to exist the thoughts must change states.

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Ehh. Sounds like a stretch.

Damn OT has changed.... 2nd page and I'm the first to say 'Broken arse Glass'

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Now there's a name I don't see very often.

"The Open Society and It's Enemies" is one of my favorite books.

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I've just rediscovered him.

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Those are philosophical matters.

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Some are, yes. I didn't suggest they weren't. Existence? I'd say that is more than simply a philosophical question, but human philosophy and morality are not entirely detached from science either. Biological and evolutionary factors are very relevant.

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I believe most scientists would be open to the possibility if it was provable. You're mixing things up here.

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I'm referring to religious scientists. I've already established that the provability of religion, among many other key workings of the universe, is beyond our current grasp (and likely always will be). Not sure where you see any mixup. Or are you suggesting that one cannot be open to a possibility on account that by current means it is not provable? Because that's not how science works either.

Let me clarify so we can avoid strawmen, I'm not suggesting religious beliefs are at all grounded in scientific understanding.

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I have no idea what this means.

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A previous poster called belief in the afterlife irrational. So I'm suggesting that it is not, in fact, irrational. Surely you understand that thought.

In the second idea, I'm pointing out that scientists who also happen to be religious, don't argue that their beliefs stem from scientific study. Thus to point out that science does not affirm such beliefs is not addressing an argument anyone has put forth. Thus having a critical, scientific mind is clearly not incompatible with a belief in an afterlife, as seems to be the suggestion.

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Mr. Popper? 

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Quit being so defensive, it wasn't a joke on his name.

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I believe that one could certainly have a viable argument in saying that it is irrational to believe in something that cannot be proven with rationality.

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Sure. That two arguments are in opposition to one another does not necessarily confer invalidity upon the other.

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Cool. Philosophical matters, again.

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There are lots of truths in the existence of time and space, and even simple history and Earthly life, that are beyond human understanding. That is not philosophical, that is in fact a fundamental scientific truth.

But your smugness is duly noted.

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My grandmother believed my grandfather appeared to her shortly after he died. She woke up one night and he was standing at the foot of the bed looking at her. AFAIK I'm the only family member she ever told about it, and she had never believed in ghosts before, so I think she saw, or thought she saw, something. What it was, or whether it was all in her mind, I couldn't guess.

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Jan. 2000 - my mother (no pics) is near death from a long-term illness. My wife (no pics) wakes up about 2:00 a.m. and sees a figure standing over my side of the bed looking down at the bed. Thinking it's me standing by the bed, she calls out, "what are you doing?"

She then realizes that I'm actually asleep in the bed next to her, when I groggily awake after hearing her voice. She said she returned to looking at the figure more intensely and it had female shape. She then turned on a lamp and the figure disappeared. We talked about it, considered it very weird and managed to fall back asleep.

Roughly an hour or so later, the phone rings and it's my father telling me that my mother died earlier in the morning. I ask the time of death, as best he knew it, and he said "right after 2:00 a.m."

Neither my wife nor I ever put any thought into ghosts before that night, but she was adamant about what she saw. And, no, we had not been drinking.

I'm not spiritual and I still have no idea about ghosts and the like, but I always preferred to think that maybe my mom did stop by one last time before she moved on and up. Who knows? But I hope she did.

Go on