- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
Posted on 1/11/18 at 10:07 am to Lou Pai
quote:
Maybe, but that's not what that famous shitty Oxford study people like to cite takes into account. The one where they, in their infinite wisdom, went down a list of job types and checked off what they think should be automated. I think it's kind of multifaceted, but one significant aspect for what I believe needs to happen is that we need to achieve something approaching true AGI, which we have no way of knowing precisely how far off we are from that... but almost certainly not a decade away in a manner that would apply to the entire labor market.
You mean the same study that actually predicted labor growth through 2020?
You really showed them
This post was edited on 1/11/18 at 10:08 am
Posted on 1/11/18 at 10:12 am to TigerinATL
That Jack in the Box example is idiosyncratic. Why hasn't it already happened, if the technology has already existed for decades?
Also, regarding driverless cars, the technology will begin to encroach on the demand for drivers. But again, that will take time due to hurdles in regulatory framework, infrastructure, and public perception of driverless cars. The jobs won't disappear overnight, but they will gradually erode. And those workers will find other work. That's part of the argument I'm making.
Also, regarding driverless cars, the technology will begin to encroach on the demand for drivers. But again, that will take time due to hurdles in regulatory framework, infrastructure, and public perception of driverless cars. The jobs won't disappear overnight, but they will gradually erode. And those workers will find other work. That's part of the argument I'm making.
This post was edited on 1/11/18 at 10:16 am
Posted on 1/11/18 at 10:17 am to Lou Pai
quote:
That said, I think you're on to something! It's almost like these types of transitions happen gradually and are subject to different layers of complexity in different industries.
So similar to what the conclusion of the Oxford study:
quote:
Our findings thus imply that as technology races ahead, low-skill workers will reallocate to tasks that are non-susceptible to computerisation – i.e., tasks requiring creative and social intelligence. For workers to win the race, however, they will have to acquire creative and social skills.
Posted on 1/11/18 at 10:18 am to Lou Pai
quote:
That Jack in the Box example idiosyncratic.
What do you mean by this?
quote:
Why hasn't it already happened, if the technology has already existed for decades?
I believe it is mostly because people are slow to change. It is why we still have bank tellers. A lot of people just prefer the human interaction over the machine.
Like people will avoid the self checkout and choose to wait in line at the grocery store.
Posted on 1/11/18 at 10:21 am to Lou Pai
quote:
Also, regarding driverless cars, the technology will begin to encroach on the demand for drivers. But again, that will take time due to hurdles in regulatory framework, infrastructure, and public perception of driverless cars. The jobs won't disappear overnight, but they will gradually erode. And those workers will find other work. That's part of the argument I'm making.
Hmmm, seems similar to what the Oxford study said
quote:
V.A. Limitations It shall be noted that our predictions are based on expanding the premises about the tasks that computer-controlled equipment can be expected to perform. Hence, we focus on estimating the share of employment that can potentially be substituted by computer capital, from a technological capabilities point of view, over some unspecified number of years. We make no attempt to estimate how many jobs will actually be automated. The actual extent and pace of computerisation will depend on several additional factors which were left unaccounted for.
Maybe you should actually read the study, it is only 45 pages
Posted on 1/11/18 at 10:22 am to Lou Pai
quote:
The jobs won't disappear overnight, but they will gradually erode.
I don't know anyone that argues that these jobs will disappear over night.
quote:
And those workers will find other work. That's part of the argument I'm making.
The problem is when the technology is not just specific to certain industries, but all industry is heavily automated.
Long haul truck driving becomes automated. Those workers move to manufacturing jobs. Those jobs become automated. those workers move on and then that becomes automated and so on.
Eventually there isn't going to be much low skill work left that isn't automated.
Posted on 1/11/18 at 10:23 am to 50_Tiger
Lulz if you think trumps policies did that.
The Fed is the reason for the economy:
LINK
Both Obama and trump suck
The Fed is the reason for the economy:
quote:
Actually, this is a trick question, because the real answer is that it’s the Ben Bernanke-Janet Yellen economy. More on that in a minute. But if you’re so binary that you still insist on an answer to the “Is it Trump’s economy or still Obama’s,” let’s delve into that.
In the six months before Barack Obama took office in 2009, the U.S. economy was not only losing jobs, but losing them at a dangerously accelerating pace. July, 2008: -213,000. August: -267,000. September: -450,000. October: -474,000. November: -766,000, December: -694,000. In January 2009: -793,000. The carnage peaked in March, when a staggering 823,000 jobs went poof.
See Embed
By this point—spring 2009—the unemployment rate reached 9.0% and Obama opponents began saying what a terrible president he was. The fact that it had doubled from just 4.5% in the prior two years when he was just a junior senator from Illinois, well, so what? On top of that, the deficit was $1.4 trillion and the S&P 500 had cratered to 666. Opponents, choosing to ignore the fact that he had been in the White House for just a few weeks and inherited this disaster, sneered that it was all his fault. To all but the most blindly partisan hater, this was silly, of course.
The question, then: When did it become Obama’s economy? And when did (or when will) it become Trump’s? This is all subjective of course, depending on your partisan bias and whether the data is favorable to your chosen narrative. It’s also subjective because market cycles and presidential terms don’t necessarily overlap. The fact is, presidents inherit, for better or worse, the economy left by their predecessor, its momentum and direction. George W. Bush inherited a budget surplus—but also a collapsing stock market—from Bill Clinton. Obama inherited a housing, job and stock market collapse—and the above mentioned deficit that was 9.8% of GDP—from Bush. Trump inherited a deficit that fallen 55% to 3.4% of GDP, a stock market that had tripled off its March 2009 low, and a jobs machine that added 14.6 million jobs in the 76 months before he was even elected. These are stone-cold facts. Yet in typical Trump fashion, he complains and says he inherited a mess.
But the stock market surge that began in 2009 and the job growth that began a year later both remain impressive today. For all his complaining, Trump has latched onto the economic momentum provided by his predecessor and is milking it for all it’s worth. I don’t blame him; that’s politics. But for him to claim that we’ve gone from a mess just a few months ago to “happy days are here again”—without signing one major piece of economic legislation—doesn’t pass the smell test. But again, that’s politics.
In economic terms, my own view is that the first year or so of any administration is just a carryover from the previous one. Trump’s first full fiscal year as president didn’t begin until Oct. 1. But he still doesn’t even have a budget—a pathetic fact that nearly led last week to a government shutdown. Trump agreed to kick the can down the road by signing a two-week spending bill, but all this means is that another shutdown could occur three days before Christmas.
It’s also still Obama’s economy by virtue of the fact that after nearly a year in office, Trump, as mentioned, still hasn’t signed one major economic bill. This is likely to change soon with tax reform, but it’s not over the finish line yet. If and when Trump signs it—a huge achievement for better or worse—it will then be his economy.
But this doesn’t mean Trump gets no credit for what’s happened this year. He has cut a lot of red tape by using the one thing he criticized Obama for: using his executive powers. “Trump did sign a record number of laws rolling back regulations under the Congressional Review Act,” the nonpartisan Politifact notes, “but that’s not the only way to count deregulatory action.”
While hard to quantify, the reduction of regulatory uncertainty is a big deal and helps explain why business confidence is up. Trump has helped release animal spirits that can help an economy grow. Just as Obama deserves credit for helping to right the economy in 2009-10 and putting it on the path to recovery, Trump also deserves credit for nudging it along this year.
quote:
For nearly a decade now, these back-to-back Federal Reserve chairs have kept short-term rates low, while driving longer-term rates down by scooping up $4.5 trillion worth of government bonds and mortgage-backed securities. This has pushed investors into risky assets (i.e. stocks), a rocket fuel for the incredible stock market run that began in March 2009 and continues today. It’s the biggest reason why corporate profits have soared, and the housing market came roaring back.
This didn’t stop Obama from taking credit for the S&P’s 241% gain off the March 2009 low, or Trump from bragging about its 17% run since he took over. But it’s Bernanke and Yellen who engineered it.
Frankly, you can credit George W. Bush for nominating Bernanke for Fed chair in 2006 and Obama for naming Yellen in 2014. We can also credit Trump for nominating Jerome Powell, a solid choice who has strongly supported the monetary and regulatory policies of both since joining the Fed’s board of governors in 2012—after being nominated by Obama, incidentally.
LINK
Both Obama and trump suck
Posted on 1/11/18 at 10:24 am to Lou Pai
quote:
False
quote:
However, we make no attempt to forecast future changes in the occupational composition of the labour market. While the 2010-2020 BLS occupational employment projections predict US net employment growth across major occupations, based on historical staffing patterns, we speculate about technology that is in only the early stages of development. This means that historical data on the impact of the technological developments we observe is unavailable.21 We therefore focus on the impact of computerisation on the mix of jobs that existed in 2010. Our analysis is thus limited to the substitution effect of future computerisation.
Also,
quote:
Also, regarding driverless cars, the technology will begin to encroach on the demand for drivers. But again, that will take time due to hurdles in regulatory framework, infrastructure, and public perception of driverless cars. The jobs won't disappear overnight, but they will gradually erode. And those workers will find other work. That's part of the argument I'm making.
Literally addressed and acknowledged in the study. Seriously, read it. I think you'd agree with a lot more of it than you think.
This post was edited on 1/11/18 at 10:30 am
Posted on 1/11/18 at 10:27 am to 50_Tiger
quote:
Companies are cutting deals with the US and bringing manufacturing back home.
I'll grab the actual statistics but this was news, not a few weeks back.
How do I know if it Fake News or not? Probably Fake News.
Posted on 1/11/18 at 10:30 am to 25 Point Lead
I've read the study before. If memory serves, in no way, shape, or form do they suggest that labor is going to grow through 2020. I just ctrl+F'd for it, and found a reference to the BLS. Maybe I'm not remembering? Please help me remember.
And my criticism of the study is the method in which they conducted it. It was pathetically simplistic and almost arrogant in a way.
And my criticism of the study is the method in which they conducted it. It was pathetically simplistic and almost arrogant in a way.
This post was edited on 1/11/18 at 10:31 am
Posted on 1/11/18 at 10:31 am to 25 Point Lead
quote:
While the 2010-2020 BLS occupational employment projections predict US net employment growth across major occupations, based on historical staffing patterns, we speculate about technology that is in only the early stages of development
Hmmm... you need to read it, apparently.
Posted on 1/11/18 at 10:32 am to Lou Pai
quote:
And my criticism of the study is the method in which they conducted it. It was pathetically simplistic and almost arrogant in a way.
It literally acknowledged or addressed almost every single criticism you've had so far.
Your entire premise is false, and it doesn't appear you remember what the study was even trying to say. It wasn't giving an exact timeline, and it was suggesting what 2010 jobs could be automated in the future.
Posted on 1/11/18 at 10:33 am to Lou Pai
quote:
That Jack in the Box example is idiosyncratic. Why hasn't it already happened, if the technology has already existed for decades?
I stated why, they weren't comfortable paying the upfront costs before, but with 18 states about to raise the minimum wage as high as $15 this year according to the article I linked. They feel it "makes sense" now. If it makes sense to them it will make sense to others.
quote:
they will gradually erode. And those workers will find other work. That's part of the argument I'm making.
Doing what? Writing programs to control the machines? That's not even close to the wheel house of many of the people that are going to be displaced. If computers/robots can answer our phones and drive our cars and ring up our purchases in 5-10 years, and then they'll be making our food, stocking our shelves, folding our clothes, and delivering our packages in 10-20 years, where exactly is the low-no skilled laborer going to find a job?
Posted on 1/11/18 at 10:35 am to Lou Pai
Posted on 1/11/18 at 10:37 am to jdeval1
Posted on 1/11/18 at 10:38 am to 25 Point Lead
You still fail to understand the premise. Part of my annoyance with the study is not only the methodology, but also the doom-and-gloom headlines that were derived from it by shitty articles (which I also alluded to in this thread). It's also commonly used by charlatans on message boards, etc. to appeal to authority and make an argument for UBI.
Popular
Back to top



0





