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Message
re: Why can't free market determine things anymore?
Posted on 3/18/16 at 12:13 pm to The Sad Banana
Posted on 3/18/16 at 12:13 pm to The Sad Banana
quote:
I'm not sure "free market" applies to handicap accessibility, dude.
One of the businesses had just built a new building and they sell nothing but climbing/hiking gear and similar outdoorsy clothing lines (North Face, Patagonia, Columbia, etc). I know lots buy that stuff and not use it as it is intended. They got hit with about a $10k remodel after the building was done having to go in and redo two bathrooms and a ramp or two. If they scarcely have handicapped patrons, why force them into a $10k remodel when they can't recoup that money? It is a privately owned business with a privately owned building.
4
Posted on 3/18/16 at 12:15 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
His demographic is blamed for every single perceived problem in the Western world
Man that is totally not an exaggeration.
quote:
Don't be so snide and ignorant.
How have I been ignorant? Because I'm not buying into OP's martyrdom?
Posted on 3/18/16 at 12:19 pm to gamatt53
quote:
Sorry OP my business only serves people who don't bitch and complain - you aren't welcome in it.
but I have no issues with this.
Posted on 3/18/16 at 12:21 pm to RaleighTiger
quote:
Would it be OK with you if a restaurant refused to serve people of color?
I'd eat there often.
Posted on 3/18/16 at 12:21 pm to Warfarer
quote:
One of the businesses had just built a new building and they sell nothing but climbing/hiking gear and similar outdoorsy clothing lines (North Face, Patagonia, Columbia, etc). I know lots buy that stuff and not use it as it is intended. They got hit with about a $10k remodel after the building was done having to go in and redo two bathrooms and a ramp or two. If they scarcely have handicapped patrons, why force them into a $10k remodel when they can't recoup that money? It is a privately owned business with a privately owned building.
Of all the stances to take these days this is the shittiest of them all. I surely hope nothing ever happens to you or anyone in your family where they need to be confined to a wheelchair. Sheesh.
Posted on 3/18/16 at 12:22 pm to CorporateTiger
quote:
Because I'm not buying into OP's martyrdom?
But I'm not trying to be a martyr nor claim to be. I just see small businesses being forced to do things that they don't want to or believe in and I think it is wrong in the private sector.
Like I said, I do concrete and mainly for municipalities so I understand the ADA codes as well as most engineers. I fully understand why cities and government entities should have to conform to accommodate all people (within reason) but I just don't understand why not let businesses live or die on their decisions.
Posted on 3/18/16 at 12:22 pm to CorporateTiger
quote:
Man that is totally not an exaggeration.
Ask any social activist who's to blame for the problems in the world and they'll give you a description of the OP.
quote:
How have I been ignorant? Because I'm not buying into OP's martyrdom?
No, you're ignorant to dismiss an argument that's pushed 24/7 by most media outlets and politicians.
Posted on 3/18/16 at 12:25 pm to MightyYat
quote:
Of all the stances to take these days this is the shittiest of them all. I surely hope nothing ever happens to you or anyone in your family where they need to be confined to a wheelchair. Sheesh.
that is one of my greatest fears actually, I can't imagine that life. Again, I would understand that they are business though that makes their decisions based on numbers.
Posted on 3/18/16 at 12:27 pm to Warfarer
There is no such thing as the "free market".
Posted on 3/18/16 at 12:28 pm to Warfarer
Is it zoned? Why not let someone put a paper mill next to the town square?
If it's within city limits you are subject to their codes of acceptable behavior and practices for the benefit of the general public
If it's within city limits you are subject to their codes of acceptable behavior and practices for the benefit of the general public
This post was edited on 3/18/16 at 12:31 pm
Posted on 3/18/16 at 12:28 pm to The Sad Banana
quote:
I'm not sure "free market" applies to handicap accessibility, dude.
Why do you say that? Being handicapped is a bad deal in life, no doubt, but there are limitations to what you are able to do from that point forward. i have never been in that situation so there is no way I can fully grasp it. A good bit of families in this country have someone in their family that is disabled in some capacity, if a business wasn't handicap accessible then people who felt strongly against it wouldn't go there. If that is enough people, then the business would cease to exist. Why is this not a free market thing?
Posted on 3/18/16 at 12:28 pm to Warfarer
quote:
I had to install handicap accessible restrooms despite the fact that I am a private business and no one should ever use my restroom except my employees.
So I'm assuming you discriminate against hiring the handicap?
Posted on 3/18/16 at 12:30 pm to Warfarer
quote:I don't know what the laws are exactly, and I'm not even a business person, but I do work in an industry where ADA accessibility is federally required (streets) and I would most certainly make sure my business is ADA compliant.
One of the businesses had just built a new building and they sell nothing but climbing/hiking gear and similar outdoorsy clothing lines (North Face, Patagonia, Columbia, etc). I know lots buy that stuff and not use it as it is intended. They got hit with about a $10k remodel after the building was done having to go in and redo two bathrooms and a ramp or two. If they scarcely have handicapped patrons, why force them into a $10k remodel when they can't recoup that money? It is a privately owned business with a privately owned building.
Just curious, who is the "they" that is forcing the remodels?
Posted on 3/18/16 at 12:30 pm to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
Is it zoned? Why not let someone put a paper mill next to the town square?
I'm not following you on this one. Is there something in the zoning requirements that would apply here? Part of my land was zoned for commercial and part residential due to having two road fronts.
Posted on 3/18/16 at 12:31 pm to BigPerm30
quote:
So I'm assuming you discriminate against hiring the handicap?
what type of handicap person would be able to help me pour concrete? Yes, if a person in a wheelchair showed up needing a job at my place they would be shite out of luck considering what I do.
Posted on 3/18/16 at 12:31 pm to Warfarer
quote:I don't think you can not have ADA compliance is the reason. That has nothing to do with free market principles.
Why do you say that? Being handicapped is a bad deal in life, no doubt, but there are limitations to what you are able to do from that point forward. i have never been in that situation so there is no way I can fully grasp it. A good bit of families in this country have someone in their family that is disabled in some capacity, if a business wasn't handicap accessible then people who felt strongly against it wouldn't go there. If that is enough people, then the business would cease to exist. Why is this not a free market thing?
If you want to refuse service to any demographic, I'm okay with that. But that doesn't mean you aren't required to comply with ADA regs.
Posted on 3/18/16 at 12:31 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
Ask any social activist who's to blame for the problems in the world and they'll give you a description of the OP.
So what you are actually saying is "a relatively small segment of the population blames OP's demographic for everything that is wrong in the western world."
That is true, but OP's demographic would largely blame those same social activists.
quote:
No, you're ignorant to dismiss an argument that's pushed 24/7 by most media outlets and politicians.
Please the only politician going hard on blaming white men is Hillary. Eve Bernie, who theoretically falls into this group gets most of his support from under 45 white males.
Posted on 3/18/16 at 12:32 pm to Warfarer
quote:
that is one of my greatest fears actually, I can't imagine that life. Again, I would understand that they are business though that makes their decisions based on numbers.
I'm sure you would totally understand if you had to wheel your wife or mom or child to, say, a concrete business or outdoors supply store and you couldn't get up the stairs or fit in the bathroom if that came up. I'm sure you'd be all like, "it's cool guys. I understand. It's your personal business. My wife can just sit here in her own piss and shite. We're good."
Posted on 3/18/16 at 12:33 pm to Peazey
quote:
That isn't a free market issue.
What isn't? He listed like 3-4 examples
Posted on 3/18/16 at 12:33 pm to The Sad Banana
quote:
Just curious, who is the "they" that is forcing the remodels?
"they" was more the threat of lawsuits. There was a law firm out of Montgomery or Birmingham going around the state threatening to sue anyone not conforming a couple years ago. Basically ambulance chasers that knew that they could get lots of small checks by threat of law suit.
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