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re: Why are Unions still a thing?
Posted on 3/15/18 at 3:02 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Posted on 3/15/18 at 3:02 pm to RogerTheShrubber
That's what it should be according to who? Problem is they want their cake and eat it too. They want tax subsidies to move into areas. They have lobyists to protect them from consequences. But when a worker wants something, now all of a sudden they are lazy and greedy. Yes there are exceptions on both sides.
1
Posted on 3/15/18 at 3:03 pm to AUCE05
quote:
The O&G barrens lay everyone off when oil drops below 70$ a barrel, and they could give two shits if any of them die.
What are they supposed to do?
Posted on 3/15/18 at 3:05 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
Problem is they want their cake and eat it too. They want tax subsidies to move into areas.
We don't have capitalism, we have corporatism. It's a symbiotic relationship between bureaucrats, politicians and corporations. Microsoft, Apple, Exxon, Google are prime examples of this.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 3:05 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
quote:Do you consider the entity of the corporation to be an anti capitalistic creation?
quote:
Yes
Up vote for an honest answer.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 3:08 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
We don't have capitalism, we have corporatism. It's a symbiotic relationship between bureaucrats, politicians and corporations. Microsoft, Apple, Exxon, Google are prime examples of this.
Agreed. And we never will. Because as soon as you wipe the slate clean, someone will start digging it up again. Human nature. Which is why I don't think workers banding together is a bad thing. Now should they be in politics? Probably not. Neither side should. Unfortunately it don't work that way in the real world. So their move to politics is an understandable reaction. Or vice versa. Whichever happened first.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 3:09 pm to TigerstuckinMS
quote:
Falling asleep, at the 2 mills I've worked in, was a big no no and will get you fired after a couple of times.
That anyone would ever think it's okay for someone to fall asleep in a work environment as dangerous as a mill even once screams volumes.
Some jobs have that opportunity. I was in a paper mill. Some operators on night shift have lots of time on their hands and thinks it's ok.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 3:12 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
Which is why I don't think workers banding together is a bad thing.
It depends on your marketability.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 4:58 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:Neither does Scruffy, but forcing people to pay into unions or to join unions simply for having a job is wrong.
Which is why I don't think workers banding together is a bad thing.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 5:02 pm to Scruffy
quote:
Neither does Scruffy, but forcing people to pay into unions or to join unions simply for having a job is wrong
I can agree with that. Works both ways. I suppose you can say well don't work there then. But that's just turning it around on the worker yet again.
I can't argue against Scruffy though. Best damn janitor in the world.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 5:02 pm to Scruffy
I think some private sector unions have their place but no way for public/govt jobs.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 5:17 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
The decline in the power of unions is a big part of our two decade wage freeze, tbh.
This is quite true. My father owned a rather large construction company for over 50 years and had contracts with many different unions. Most were craftsman who went through an apprenticeship and were paid accordingly. Those guys in 1978 were making about $18-$20 dollars an hour-as journeyman.
In 2018 the same crafts are making the same amount of money.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 6:08 pm to Displaced
quote:
Except that the unions are actually used to protect the shitty cops and teachers from accountability.
No shite. I wasn't saying unions don't go too far sometimes, esp. in NYC. Just that there are some cases where they are useful too.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 6:33 pm to Tiger Roux
quote:
I think some private sector unions have their place
Unions for journeymen. That's about it.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 7:02 pm to Bert Macklin FBI
How does that floor you? If they don't show extreme bias toward members, they will eventually lose those members (particularly the shitty ones). Losing members equals losing money. And just like they peach about "those greedy no good company men", they themselves only care about the all mighty dollar, especially the ones in their pockets.
Unions served a purpose and because of the good purpose they served laws were created to help against discrimination, wrongful termination, abuse of power, fair compensation (1.5x OT), minimum wage, length of workdays. Once those were taken care of by laws and regulations they had to find other ways to keep themselves in the mix and money in the pocket. Once employers got sick of the outrageousness and people starting getting fed up with being passed over for promotion to someone less deserving because of longevity they started moving away from the unions. So then the unions have to go full tilt to keep the dues coming and protecting the members that were left. That is how we got to where we are today.
Same with politics, they continue going to fat to the direction (left and right) to keep the people happy and villianize the other side. But unlike unions vs Merritt shop where laws protect one side so the other slowly does out, in politics we will eventually have a third party fully emerge that stays in the middle and dominates the whole realm of politics. Probably socially liberal and fiscally conservative, but who knows.
Unions served a purpose and because of the good purpose they served laws were created to help against discrimination, wrongful termination, abuse of power, fair compensation (1.5x OT), minimum wage, length of workdays. Once those were taken care of by laws and regulations they had to find other ways to keep themselves in the mix and money in the pocket. Once employers got sick of the outrageousness and people starting getting fed up with being passed over for promotion to someone less deserving because of longevity they started moving away from the unions. So then the unions have to go full tilt to keep the dues coming and protecting the members that were left. That is how we got to where we are today.
Same with politics, they continue going to fat to the direction (left and right) to keep the people happy and villianize the other side. But unlike unions vs Merritt shop where laws protect one side so the other slowly does out, in politics we will eventually have a third party fully emerge that stays in the middle and dominates the whole realm of politics. Probably socially liberal and fiscally conservative, but who knows.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 7:03 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Unions used to be extremely important to the country. For the most part they are not only no longer needed but do more harm than good.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 8:05 pm to The Rodfather
What good are the laws when no one enforces them though? I worked at a place where OT was mandatory. You didn't work it, you got fired after a certain amount of times. Had weekend plans with the family? Well that's just a shame.
I read a good piece at one point in time that also discussed how minimum wage actually lowered costs because it set the floor and now everyone races to the bottom. It actually has hurt more than it helped. Have to see if I can find it.
I read a good piece at one point in time that also discussed how minimum wage actually lowered costs because it set the floor and now everyone races to the bottom. It actually has hurt more than it helped. Have to see if I can find it.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 8:07 pm to Martini
Yep. Look at the decline of unions compared to the decline of the middle class. They go hand in hand.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 8:46 pm to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:
Why are Unions still a thing?
Oh look a southern male who had no clue of the history of labor in this nation.
The Unions fight now should be the 32 hour work week. That should be thier singular focus.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 8:51 pm to Bert Macklin FBI
They are unfortunately necessary to keep corporations from butt fricking their employees to look more profitable at the end of the quarter, letting them go broke and hungry for a few months and then hire them back on at half their previous wage.
Sure, they’ve become bloated and corrupt, but they’re a necessary evil
Sure, they’ve become bloated and corrupt, but they’re a necessary evil
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