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re: What Do You Think About This Police Shooting? (NSFW)
Posted on 6/19/23 at 10:05 pm to wadewilson
Posted on 6/19/23 at 10:05 pm to wadewilson
quote:
That may very well just be a bunch of CYA, but I also don't think that allowing somebody to stay in a condo they've been evicted from just because they might be mentally ill is a solution either.
What's the cop supposed to do? Just frick off and tell the landlord that it's their problem?
I mean its an eviction notice. that means there is a certain grace period allowed before actually physically evicting. so if it was just over an eviction notice, yea the cop could've and should've just fricked off at that point. Until after the notice expires it is the landlord's problem. Although after the notice expires then I'd agree with you.
quote:
According to the sheriff's department, the deputies were told by the condo's manager and a maintenance worker that Li had threatened them with a knife one day earlier.
"Based on this reported crime, there was a threat to public safety," authorities said. "This is also probable cause to arrest Li for assault with a deadly weapon."
yea it may well be CYA... they just sent 1 cop to serve eviction notice to someone they had PC to arrest for threatening multiple people with a knife? that makes it seem like a post-hoc justification. I mean if that isnt CYA then yea its more justified.
2
Posted on 6/19/23 at 10:22 pm to AMS
Also never states WHEN deputies were notified of that.
Did 1 deputy show up knowing she had threatened the maintenance man, or did he find out after he arrived? Or, were deputies told that after the shooting?
Don't know. Presumably it was all legit, as the DA refused to charge 4 weeks ago.
Did 1 deputy show up knowing she had threatened the maintenance man, or did he find out after he arrived? Or, were deputies told that after the shooting?
Don't know. Presumably it was all legit, as the DA refused to charge 4 weeks ago.
Posted on 6/19/23 at 10:39 pm to TutHillTiger
quote:
I know I am an old mfer but every cop I grew up would have laughed at her and just told her to put down the knife unless you she was going to cook them dinner or something, and taken the time to de-escalate the situation and no one would have been injured, unless they got a minor cut.
You must be ancient. Cops are trained to respect the damage a person with a knife can inflict at close range. It is a lethal weapon in anyone’s hands.
Even 30 years ago lethal force included serious bodily injury.
Clean shoot.
Posted on 6/19/23 at 10:44 pm to AUstar
quote:
letter admonishing the Police for doing a poor job of de-escalating the situation
I’m not one to defend the police but de-escalating a situation goes both ways.
Posted on 6/19/23 at 10:45 pm to WhereisAtlanta
quote:
An obviously scared woman answered the door with a knife, no big deal, if he was uncomfortable with that he should have asked her to put it away, there was zero reason for a aggressive threat to be issued.
On what planet is a cop going to nicely ask a mentally ill person to drop their deadly weapon?
Posted on 6/19/23 at 10:47 pm to TutHillTiger
quote:
I mean seriously a little Chinese women with a knife
It's a deadly weapon and she stabbed a cop several times before they put her down.
Posted on 6/19/23 at 10:47 pm to wadewilson
quote:
Also never states WHEN deputies were notified of that.
yea thats pretty important.
quote:
Did 1 deputy show up knowing she had threatened the maintenance man,
Id find this rather improbable for the cop to not have backup from the get-go in the scenario of a known threat. he didn't even seem to notice the knife until after serving the notice. something he probably wouldve been more cognizant of had he been aware of deadly weapon threats.
quote:
or did he find out after he arrived?
more plausible than the above. but still strange for the same lack of awareness of the knife until after serving the notice if he was told about that just before serving the notice.
quote:
Or, were deputies told that after the shooting
seems most likely. but also wholly invalidates their justification for forced entry imo.
perhaps the threats were reported to a cop other than him, which generally gave LEOs PC to arrest her and off-body cam this was communicated and decided to act.
idk it just seems CYA to me, maybe there's some nuance that justifies it but it kinda stinks with what is known thusfar.
Posted on 6/19/23 at 10:48 pm to TutHillTiger
quote:
TutHillTiger
"Back in my day..."
Nobody cares, boomer.
Posted on 6/19/23 at 11:06 pm to AUstar
Here's my hot take:
1) Cops were too gung-ho at the beginning. Barking orders and threatening to shoot her. They made no attempt whatsoever to bring the temperature down. She was someone being evicted, not a serial killer. No need to make the situation some big deal.
2) However, once they were in the apartment and she charged with the knife, they were justified in shooting. Even a small woman can do massive damage with a butcher knife. I wouldn't want to be stabbed with that knife and I don't fault the Cops there.
The woman had a PhD from Yale but obviously her life took a "wrong turn" because of her mental illness.
There's "bad people" and there's "crazy people." Bad people are those who make willful decisions to do wrong and I am fine with them getting what they deserve. Crazy people might break laws but they don't have their faculties about them (which is why we have "insanity" laws on the books). I do not believe this woman was a "bad person." I think she falls in the crazy category.
I just wish there was a way to get these people to the funny farm without having to shoot them. Just because you're crazy, doesn't mean you deserve to die. No one asks to be bipolar or schizophrenic. It is genetic and just happens to some people. It sucks.
1) Cops were too gung-ho at the beginning. Barking orders and threatening to shoot her. They made no attempt whatsoever to bring the temperature down. She was someone being evicted, not a serial killer. No need to make the situation some big deal.
2) However, once they were in the apartment and she charged with the knife, they were justified in shooting. Even a small woman can do massive damage with a butcher knife. I wouldn't want to be stabbed with that knife and I don't fault the Cops there.
The woman had a PhD from Yale but obviously her life took a "wrong turn" because of her mental illness.
There's "bad people" and there's "crazy people." Bad people are those who make willful decisions to do wrong and I am fine with them getting what they deserve. Crazy people might break laws but they don't have their faculties about them (which is why we have "insanity" laws on the books). I do not believe this woman was a "bad person." I think she falls in the crazy category.
I just wish there was a way to get these people to the funny farm without having to shoot them. Just because you're crazy, doesn't mean you deserve to die. No one asks to be bipolar or schizophrenic. It is genetic and just happens to some people. It sucks.
Posted on 6/20/23 at 12:45 am to AMS
quote:Where did you come p with the belief that the notice has a grace period? From what I understand in many jurisdictions that the notice reads that you are being removed now. Otherwise, the people being evicted trash the place on the way out.
I mean its an eviction notice. that means there is a certain grace period allowed before actually physically evicting.
It would be helpful to know how California law works on this point.
Posted on 6/20/23 at 12:46 am to AMS
quote:The serving of the order was likely only part of what the court order mandated. Many jurisdictions serve the notice as the eviction is being conducted.
the cop probably should have left.
he served the eviction notice... which was the entire purpose for being there. The task at hand was finished.
Posted on 6/20/23 at 2:23 am to Willie Stroker
I guess I am old as frick, cops I grew up could whip your arse, take the knife from you and stick it up your arse before you knew what happened. They didn’t need to shot people because they weren’t pussies and scared of every 119 pound women or crackhead with a pocket knife. Apparently even 10 year boys with butter knives are deadly to too many of todays cops. We have too many Barney Fifes and not enough Andy’s
Posted on 6/20/23 at 4:00 am to TutHillTiger
quote:
guess I am old as frick, cops I grew up could whip your arse, take the knife from you and stick it up your arse before you knew what happened. They didn’t need to shot people because they weren’t pussies and scared of every 119 pound women or crackhead with a pocket knife. Apparently even 10 year boys with butter knives are deadly to too many of todays cops. We have too many Barney Fifes and not enough Andy’s
I'm getting up there too, but remember things a bit differently. You didn't mess with cops when I was young, cause they wouldn't hesitate to shoot you. So people were scared of them and didn't push those boundaries. They'd beat people down too, but that was for outright disrespect or trivial reasons. The temperature always shifted when cops arrived on the scene, people scattered..
Posted on 6/20/23 at 6:14 am to genuineLSUtiger
quote:
It’s easy to judge from your ivory tower. Being there in the moment is a different animal.
It absolutely is and that exactly the reason police should not be asked to respond to mental health problems. When they are there has to be someone who is better equipped than a policeman who is trained to fight crime, not mental health issues. It is a grave disservice to policemen to ask them to fight crime and to skillfully handle obvious mental health issues...they will do it when asked to because they mostly have a "serve the community" attitude but the end result is often not what one would call positive. Police are required, by the nature of most of the work, a hammer and every issue is a nail...they will default to doing to a nail what a hammer is meant to do. It is a terrible disservice to them to ask that they do these kinds of things as often as they do without some trained, professional back up. I am sure that the comply or die crowd will disagree with that and are happy that the crazy lady was killed but that is extremely dismissive of the emotional scarring killing a crazy lady would cause for most policemen....not to mention the issues it causes for society in general and the crazy lady and her family specifically.
Posted on 6/20/23 at 6:23 am to Lsupimp
quote:
I think it’s a human tragedy. Mental illness resulting in her death and an officer who has to deal with it. It’s terrible on all accounts. It’s easy to Monday morning quarterback but that certainly seems like a defensible use of lethal force.
I agree, easily defensible even if it weren't a cop. That does nothing for the cop who has to deal with having killed a person which would negatively impact most human beings no matter what the circumstances were. It also does nothing positive for policing in general and the impact of mistrust on society in general. I do not have an answer BUT it is not hard to imagine that finding a person with the skill set to be a good police officer AND a competent mental health professional is no small task...and the salaries for those few people would be staggering. Police have a tough job....asking them to deal with mental health issues makes it infinitely tougher and is a grave dis-service to them.
We as a society should do better....instead we vilify the police or subscribe to the comply or die line. Neither is doing anything positive for police or society.
Posted on 6/20/23 at 6:27 am to AwgustaDawg
Department needs to invest in some tasers. Seems like that could've been a less than lethal way to subdue the subject. If they were available, shame on them for not thinking it through. They knew the hazard before going in.
Posted on 6/20/23 at 6:45 am to AUstar
Once somebody is that close a knife is incredibly dangerous even if you have a firearm. I wouldn't want to use less than lethal options either.
I think the shooting part is justified. The video might not show it but did they try waiting and calming her down or getting a negotiator or some chit like that? Did they go straight to entry? Based on the video it looks like they escalated quickly when they absolutely have to.
I think the shooting part is justified. The video might not show it but did they try waiting and calming her down or getting a negotiator or some chit like that? Did they go straight to entry? Based on the video it looks like they escalated quickly when they absolutely have to.
This post was edited on 6/20/23 at 6:49 am
Posted on 6/20/23 at 8:36 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
It absolutely is and that exactly the reason police should not be asked to respond to mental health problems. When they are there has to be someone who is better equipped than a policeman who is trained to fight crime, not mental health issues.
Like Social workers?
Social worker fail.
Social worker fail too
Social Worker fail tres
Social Worker fail fooo
And the Social worker fail that would relate to that particular story.
This post was edited on 6/20/23 at 8:38 am
Posted on 6/20/23 at 8:44 am to TutHillTiger
quote:
I mean seriously a little Chinese women with a knife. I know I am an old mfer but every cop I grew up would have laughed at her and just told her to put down the knife unless you she was going to cook them dinner or something, and taken the time to de-escalate the situation and no one would have been injured, unless they got a minor cut.
Back when they had Billy clubs and could use them? Yea if they could have broken her wrist with a Billy club it would have been a better ending.
Posted on 6/20/23 at 9:51 am to AUstar
Just throw a flash bang in the room and close the door.
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