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re: What are your thoughts regarding laws against price gouging during states of emergency?
Posted on 10/9/24 at 5:34 pm to CatfishJohn
Posted on 10/9/24 at 5:34 pm to CatfishJohn
After Ida, I paid $4 a gallon at a gas station in Harahan, I was happy to have it. It was ethanol free though. 
0
Posted on 10/9/24 at 6:05 pm to CatfishJohn
The reality is no one knows. If I have a small store and my distributor won’t come and I send a guy to drive 159 miles to buy water retail so I can have it for my customers and I price it at costs plus expenses I ain’t gouging. But folks would say.
Sometimes things cost more for everyone in front of storms. And 10 buck a gallon gas is a bargain if it is what keeps the generator running.
Sometimes things cost more for everyone in front of storms. And 10 buck a gallon gas is a bargain if it is what keeps the generator running.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 6:10 pm to CatfishJohn
I still remember the Indian guy at a Raceway who was charging $15 for a bag of ice after 4/27/11. I told him I needed a few bags and asked how much, he said $15. I kind of chuckled, and said, "No, really?". He said $15. I told him to go frick himself and walked across the street and got it for $4.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 6:17 pm to LegendInMyMind
quote:
I still remember the Indian guy at a Raceway who was charging $15 for a bag of ice after 4/27/11. I told him I needed a few bags and asked how much, he said $15. I kind of chuckled, and said, "No, really?". He said $15. I told him to go frick himself and walked across the street and got it for $4.
Businesses making decisions about the price of goods they own. As it should be.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 6:22 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
Limits can easily be subverted. Prices can't.
This. I saw it during the ammo shortage several years ago. One store finally got a shipment in and limited how many boxes you could buy. I knew people that went, with their wife, bro and sis in law, and sister to buy the max.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 6:25 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
What if you are forced to pay your employees double or triple their normal wages to remain and work at the hotel?
I’ve seen multiple people make this argument, which is a little funny because that’s not price gouging. At least not in Florida. Not in Louisiana, either.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 6:29 pm to Don Quixote
quote:
when i was a kid there was a local small business retailer that jacked up prices on portable generators and kerosense heaters after a big ice storm knocked out power to the area. Fast forward several months and the same business ended up closing and declaring bankruptcy because no one would even enter his parking lot to turn around.
You reap what you sow.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 6:46 pm to lostinbr
quote:
I’ve seen multiple people make this argument, which is a little funny because that’s not price gouging. At least not in Florida. Not in Louisiana, either.
The funny part is you completely missing the point.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 6:53 pm to Chucktown_Badger
quote:
The funny part is you completely missing the point.
Umm I don’t think I am?
I was specifically addressing a post about added costs during a natural disaster. Increasing prices to recoup added cost is not price gouging in Louisiana or Florida.
Not sure what point you think I missed, but it wasn’t the one I was responding to.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 6:57 pm to CatfishJohn
People are dumb. Price gouging is the most efficient form of emergency rationing. It shouldn't be illegal and it shouldn't be condemned. I don't mind paying $100 for a gallon of water if I'm dying of thirst. Much worse would be a $1.37 gallon of water that doesn't exist.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 6:59 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
The laws are dumb and should be illegal. During emergencies, the cost of transporting and providing items is way more expensive, along with more safety risks, etc. If people can't make more money, they just won't provide the items. It's counter-productive.
This is the way
Posted on 10/9/24 at 7:04 pm to CatfishJohn
It's a delicate topic.
But at the end of the day, we know the government isn't the solution.
But at the end of the day, we know the government isn't the solution.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:23 pm to Whiznot
quote:
People are dumb. Price gouging is the most efficient form of emergency rationing. It shouldn't be illegal and it shouldn't be condemned. I don't mind paying $100 for a gallon of water if I'm dying of thirst. Much worse would be a $1.37 gallon of water that doesn't exist.
It is absolutely not the most efficient form of emergency rationing. Again according to this mentality I should not have been able to get water or gas yesterday because of the price gouging laws in Florida and yet I was able to without price gouging.
And once again someone like you misses the point. Maybe you can afford it and I get that everyone here makes $200,000/year minimum, but an average person making $45,000, $55,000, $60,000/year can not afford $100 for a gallon of water. You are essentially condemning lower middle class and the poor to not having essential materials during a natural disaster.
You don't happen to be friends with the gas station owner in South Georgia who was trying to buy $10/galling gas are you?
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:29 pm to MountaineerPatriot
I think what many of you all are conveniently forgetting is that price gouging laws in Florida allow for businesses to increase their prices to account for increased costs.
So for those of you who keep saying "transportation costs increase during an emergency", that is okay. If transportation costs for water double during a disaster, then yes that gallon of water can be increased from $1 to $2. What businesses can't do is use that as an excuse to increase a gallon of water from $1 to $20 to make excessive absurd profits off an emergency. No one should be making excessive absurd profits off an emergency.
And honestly I'm pretty shocked at the lack of any compassion. I'm assuming most people here are either from Louisiana and/or live in Louisiana and lived through Katrina. You don't want government doing limited price gouging, yet are okay with taking billions of dollars to rebuild the levy protection system in New Orleans. So you're against the government from doing a reasonable thing and banning price gouging during a natural disaster for essential items, yet are okay with taking billions of dollars from the government to rebuild a city that is sinking and is doomed at some point anyway.
Some of you claim to be Christian, you are anything but and Jesus himself would tell you that. With this mentality, don't ask for a dime the next time a Hurricane devastates New Orleans or SE Louisiana.
So for those of you who keep saying "transportation costs increase during an emergency", that is okay. If transportation costs for water double during a disaster, then yes that gallon of water can be increased from $1 to $2. What businesses can't do is use that as an excuse to increase a gallon of water from $1 to $20 to make excessive absurd profits off an emergency. No one should be making excessive absurd profits off an emergency.
And honestly I'm pretty shocked at the lack of any compassion. I'm assuming most people here are either from Louisiana and/or live in Louisiana and lived through Katrina. You don't want government doing limited price gouging, yet are okay with taking billions of dollars to rebuild the levy protection system in New Orleans. So you're against the government from doing a reasonable thing and banning price gouging during a natural disaster for essential items, yet are okay with taking billions of dollars from the government to rebuild a city that is sinking and is doomed at some point anyway.
Some of you claim to be Christian, you are anything but and Jesus himself would tell you that. With this mentality, don't ask for a dime the next time a Hurricane devastates New Orleans or SE Louisiana.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:34 pm to MountaineerPatriot
At the end of the day you all for price gouging will always lose this battle. No politician will ever get elected on the platform of removing price gouging protection for essential items.
I really can't believe so many people here are arguing against price gouging for essential items, such as food, water, gas and cleanup materials including chainsaws and generators, and for a specific short period of time, such as a few days, up to a week max.
So literally just essential items and for a short period. If a hotel owner wants to price gouge, they can. If Home Depot wants to price gouge for paint, they can. If a restaurant or gas station wants to price gouge for alcohol, they can. If a car repair shops want to price gouge for an oil change, they can.
Heck companies can even increase the price if the costs (including transportation) go up. But again they are not allowed to make excess profit off essential items to take advantage of a natural disaster.
It's literally saying businesses can not price gouge for food, water, gas and cleanup equipment, including chainsaws and generators, for maybe a few days.
At the end of day price gouging laws will never be repealed. If a politician tries to run on that, they will lose. I know I would vote against any politician in Florida who tried to run on ending price gouging laws.
I really can't believe so many people here are arguing against price gouging for essential items, such as food, water, gas and cleanup materials including chainsaws and generators, and for a specific short period of time, such as a few days, up to a week max.
So literally just essential items and for a short period. If a hotel owner wants to price gouge, they can. If Home Depot wants to price gouge for paint, they can. If a restaurant or gas station wants to price gouge for alcohol, they can. If a car repair shops want to price gouge for an oil change, they can.
Heck companies can even increase the price if the costs (including transportation) go up. But again they are not allowed to make excess profit off essential items to take advantage of a natural disaster.
It's literally saying businesses can not price gouge for food, water, gas and cleanup equipment, including chainsaws and generators, for maybe a few days.
At the end of day price gouging laws will never be repealed. If a politician tries to run on that, they will lose. I know I would vote against any politician in Florida who tried to run on ending price gouging laws.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 10:27 pm to MountaineerPatriot
But government is so inefficient, corrupt, and bureaucratic, how the heck are they going to decide what is price 'gouging' and what isn't?
Is a small business owner going to get put in jail or pay a large fine because he decided he had to charge $X, and a customer decided they would pay it?
How does the government determine markups on thousands of products?
Is a battery terminal 'essential'? It may be if I need a new one for my generator. Keep the government out of it, the seller can set the price, the buyers can reject or accept it.
Is a small business owner going to get put in jail or pay a large fine because he decided he had to charge $X, and a customer decided they would pay it?
How does the government determine markups on thousands of products?
Is a battery terminal 'essential'? It may be if I need a new one for my generator. Keep the government out of it, the seller can set the price, the buyers can reject or accept it.
Posted on 10/10/24 at 2:35 am to MidWestGuy
quote:
But government is so inefficient, corrupt, and bureaucratic, how the heck are they going to decide what is price 'gouging' and what isn't?
Is a small business owner going to get put in jail or pay a large fine because he decided he had to charge $X, and a customer decided they would pay it?
How does the government determine markups on thousands of products?
Is a battery terminal 'essential'? It may be if I need a new one for my generator. Keep the government out of it, the seller can set the price, the buyers can reject or accept it.
It's really not that hard. In Florida for example we don't tax most groceries except for things like alcohol, snacks and some junk food.
So in Florida, for food, if it's not taxed then it's essential and subject to price gouging laws.
Again water, food, gas and a few specific recovery items like generators and chainsaws, that's it. Everything else, price gouging can occur. It really wouldn't be hard at all.
This post was edited on 10/10/24 at 2:37 am
Posted on 10/10/24 at 5:47 am to CatfishJohn
Price controls of any sort at any time for any reason is anti-capitalistic. It should not be against the law.....if I have $100 cash and you have a bag of ice and I want to trade you the C note for the ice that is no one's business but yours and mine, the state has no function in that and anyone other than you and I has no input.
Anecdotally I did a restaurant tenant fit out in Charleston SC 3 months before Hugo hit. My local business license which was required to pull a permit was $26 a year and permit fees were $25. When Hugo went through I had a crew of electricians set up in a KOA campground just outside of Charleston and hauled trailer full of 2-1/2" PVC, wire, meter cans, disconnects and weather heads over there. I also had 8 Generators in the bed of the truck which I bought in Athens Georgia with the sole intent of selling them in Charelston at a modest profit not 3X what I paid for them but my plan was to double the cost of them. I was stopped by the Dorchester and Charleston County Sheriffs Department entering each county and my trailer was searched and I was warned that I could not sale the generators for more than I paid for them....they also insisted on proving I owned them, thankfully I had the receipt from the wholesale house where I bought them or they would have seized them....they came pretty close to doing so anyway in Dorchester County. I also had to prove that the material in the trailer was mine. When I contacted the inspections department I was informed that ALL prior license holders who had a business address outside of South Carolina had to purchase and additional license AND provide a code bond from a South Carolina Agent. The bond was not required previously and the license which I was using to do the tenant fit out on the restaurant was no longer sufficient and the new license was $1500 (compared to $26 just a few months earlier) and permit fees had increased to $250 for out of state contractors. This was within 10 hours of the eye making landfall. It was still raining and the wind was still blowing pretty good. The area was devastated and the local authorities were all about stealing private property and price gouging. I decided not to buy another license and bond and sold the material and generators to another contractor I knew in the area who was more than happy to double my money.
About 6 weeks after this the restaurant we were doing was in good enough shape that we were able to go back to it. I called the inspector about the previous permits and license and was told they would allow us to finish the job on that permit and with my original license but it would be the only permit that would not require the additional fees. If price gouging is illegal it should be illegal for the state to do it.
Anecdotally I did a restaurant tenant fit out in Charleston SC 3 months before Hugo hit. My local business license which was required to pull a permit was $26 a year and permit fees were $25. When Hugo went through I had a crew of electricians set up in a KOA campground just outside of Charleston and hauled trailer full of 2-1/2" PVC, wire, meter cans, disconnects and weather heads over there. I also had 8 Generators in the bed of the truck which I bought in Athens Georgia with the sole intent of selling them in Charelston at a modest profit not 3X what I paid for them but my plan was to double the cost of them. I was stopped by the Dorchester and Charleston County Sheriffs Department entering each county and my trailer was searched and I was warned that I could not sale the generators for more than I paid for them....they also insisted on proving I owned them, thankfully I had the receipt from the wholesale house where I bought them or they would have seized them....they came pretty close to doing so anyway in Dorchester County. I also had to prove that the material in the trailer was mine. When I contacted the inspections department I was informed that ALL prior license holders who had a business address outside of South Carolina had to purchase and additional license AND provide a code bond from a South Carolina Agent. The bond was not required previously and the license which I was using to do the tenant fit out on the restaurant was no longer sufficient and the new license was $1500 (compared to $26 just a few months earlier) and permit fees had increased to $250 for out of state contractors. This was within 10 hours of the eye making landfall. It was still raining and the wind was still blowing pretty good. The area was devastated and the local authorities were all about stealing private property and price gouging. I decided not to buy another license and bond and sold the material and generators to another contractor I knew in the area who was more than happy to double my money.
About 6 weeks after this the restaurant we were doing was in good enough shape that we were able to go back to it. I called the inspector about the previous permits and license and was told they would allow us to finish the job on that permit and with my original license but it would be the only permit that would not require the additional fees. If price gouging is illegal it should be illegal for the state to do it.
Posted on 10/10/24 at 5:54 am to MountaineerPatriot
I hope shop owner enjoy their little run on profits at the expense of desperate times and more desparate people.
Those same shop owner need to understanding that the boys on the corner and around the way will remember.
Shop owners, don't act all sad and victimized when them same corner boys come back to your shop and take back what you took from the community.
Those same shop owner need to understanding that the boys on the corner and around the way will remember.
Shop owners, don't act all sad and victimized when them same corner boys come back to your shop and take back what you took from the community.
Posted on 10/10/24 at 6:09 am to CatfishJohn
It’s what 30A does when “those we don’t speak of” call and want a room.
It’s an easy way to be selective
It’s an easy way to be selective
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