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re: What are your thoughts regarding laws against price gouging during states of emergency?
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:24 am to CatfishJohn
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:24 am to CatfishJohn
Absolutely the government should protect the people.
That is their main role, take care of its citizens. Price gouging is flat out wrong and people should be protected from it.
I can easily admit our govt is messed up and I think it sucks most of the time. However, I do not think that all government is evil at all times like many have been conditioned to do.
That is their main role, take care of its citizens. Price gouging is flat out wrong and people should be protected from it.
I can easily admit our govt is messed up and I think it sucks most of the time. However, I do not think that all government is evil at all times like many have been conditioned to do.
1
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:24 am to Cosmo
quote:
Other things not so much and that includes gas imo. You dont need gas to survive
Got agree to disagree on this one. Especially if you're evacuating but also if you're staying but need to run a generator. I'd consider that pretty essential.
I don't have issue with gauging laws though in the wake of a disaster as long as its limited to certain products/services. And for a short period of time to allow things to stabilize.
I do see where raising prices can force people to only buy what they need, but a lot of the time the price is raised to the point that they can't even buy what they need.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:25 am to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
There's an argument to be made that price gouging actually can help more evenly distribute resources.
Charging 20 bucks for a bottle of water could mean that several people buy the minimum they need/can afford, whereas if they were still a dollar a pop or something one person may come in and just buy the whole lot and now only one person has all the water to themselves.
This. An most economists and behavioral economists agree. Once you understand how it works, it actually IS the "moral thing" to do.
If water goes up to $20/bottle, it motivates the supply chain to provide more water there. You'll even have people filling up their pickup trucks and getting water to places that are "under-served" (to use the liberal's term).
Saying that it's bad to allow the free market to work (but they use the derogatory term "gouging"), is a lot like the liberals saying that we can just tax corporations (and ignore that they pass the cost on to everyone, poor/rich alike).
Really, read up, "price gouging" (AKA - the FREE MARKET), while nothing is perfect, is the best (and most moral) way to deal with shortages.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:27 am to CatfishJohn
quote:
This would be the most moral route and the route I would take. But should the low prices be forced by the government?
Actually, if store A is charging $20 per and Store B is charging $2 per and just limiting the number, chances are Store B is going to ensure that Store A lowers their prices.
I think the bigger issue is the actual collusion of higher prices not the higher prices in and of themselves.
So, NO, the government should not be involved in setting prices.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:27 am to TU Rob
quote:
If you run a hotel and charge $100 a night for a standard room, you shouldn't be trying to get $300-400 a night all of a sudden because of evacuations nearby.
What if you are forced to pay your employees double or triple their normal wages to remain and work at the hotel?
What if evacuees piling 10 people into a hotel room creates excess wear on your property?
There are more things at play than your moral preening.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:29 am to BiggerBear
quote:
These laws would be a really interesting Supreme Court challenge.
What would be the basis of the challenge?
I am no legal scholar and won't claim to be, so the mechanics of getting to the Supreme Court might not be perfectly clear to me, but something like a citizen appealing conviction of price gouging, claiming the laws are unconstitutional government overreach?
This post was edited on 10/9/24 at 9:30 am
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:30 am to PureMetairie
quote:
Absolutely the government should protect the people.
That is their main role, take care of its citizens. Price gouging is flat out wrong and people should be protected from it.
Slippery slope.
I agree it sounds good, but it's a slippery slope in a free market, capitalist economy.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:31 am to CatfishJohn
Where's Kamala on this? Didn't she say this was something in her economic plan? She's in office now and could actually do something, right? I guess her economic plan is as real as a fart in the wind.
This post was edited on 10/9/24 at 9:32 am
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:31 am to MidWestGuy
quote:
This. An most economists and behavioral economists agree. Once you understand how it works, it actually IS the "moral thing" to do.
If water goes up to $20/bottle, it motivates the supply chain to provide more water there. You'll even have people filling up their pickup trucks and getting water to places that are "under-served" (to use the liberal's term).
Saying that it's bad to allow the free market to work (but they use the derogatory term "gouging"), is a lot like the liberals saying that we can just tax corporations (and ignore that they pass the cost on to everyone, poor/rich alike).
Really, read up, "price gouging" (AKA - the FREE MARKET), while nothing is perfect, is the best (and most moral) way to deal with shortages.
Would an argument against this be that the price gouging in a state of emergency happens in such a tight timeframe and with such major supply chain headwinds that the free market isn't allowed to work as it should?
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:33 am to Techdog89
quote:
Where's Kamala on this? Didn't she say this was something in her economic plan? She's in office now and could actually do something, right? I guess her economic plan is as real as a fart in the wind.
We made it SO far without politards getting in here. Damn you.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:33 am to CatfishJohn
It’s helps the supply and prevents over buying. Like during covid you had stupid women buying hundreds of rolls of paper towels and toilet paper.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:34 am to bdavids09
quote:
It’s helps the supply and prevents over buying. Like during covid you had stupid women buying hundreds of rolls of paper towels and toilet paper.
Man, I remember buying a normal amount of toilet paper during this time because our household was running low and people staring at me like I'm a psycho hoarder.
What a strange time to be alive
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:42 am to CatfishJohn
How about every one act like an adult in a civilized society and have a little empathy for your neighbors? TP hoarders and the like are some of the most self-centered morons on earth.
Some of you are showing your true colors. Adversity tends to expose the jackasses amongst us.
Some of you are showing your true colors. Adversity tends to expose the jackasses amongst us.
This post was edited on 10/9/24 at 9:44 am
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:42 am to CatfishJohn
quote:
it is capitalism in a pretty pure form and supply and demand economics
I've always thought that people should temper the "price gouging" rhetoric with some understanding of basic economics.
If people are willing to pay a price for a good or service, that's the market price for that good or service. The market is inefficient when goods or services are procured for significantly less than or more than the market rate...and by that I mean if prices are too low there becomes scarcity and if prices are too high there's a glut.
In the example above about water at $20/bottle - if nobody is buying it at that price, then continuing to charge that much is just being greedy or opportunistic hoping that someone will be scared into buying it. But if you are selling all that you have at that rate and the whole market cannot be satisfied...then the argument could be made that you aren't charging enough for it.
Additionally - What if it cost be $19/bottle to get the water to my area? How is charging $20/bottle too much? Ignoring the costs of acquisition when calling it "price gouging" is also shortsighted.
Someone else pointed out above that if I always charge $100/night for a hotel room, but during a storm I charge $300/night - here's a problem that you are creating by saying I have to keep it at $100: a buyer may overreact to the low rate and buy more than they need, thus causing a shortage for others. That buyer could buy 2 hotel rooms for a price lower than others are paying for 1. What if they use both but could have used 1, and someone else that needs one can't get one at all? Isn't that just as irresponsible?
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:43 am to Cosmo
quote:
Other things not so much and that includes gas imo. You dont need gas to survive
This (price gouging during catastrophes) is a prime economic example of where the government can provide a vital service to the people who own said government. It's exceedingly rare that the government is good for anything at all, but this is one where it's a vital stopgap.
Like my business law professor would say, "If your industry doesn't regulate itself, then the government will do it."
And in a case like this, they should.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:43 am to CatfishJohn
Price gouging prevents people from panic buying what they don't need. Also a customer simply buying everything in stock then becoming the price gouger himself. On the flip side, i consider it morally wrong to profit from someone's misfortune. In a perfect world, people would buy just what they need, and businesses wouldn't gouge. I'm sure many stores try to institute limits, but then some customers ignore that or throw a fit, or claim they are buying for others... It's just a fact of life that some people are just arse holes, and no amount of government legislation will ever change that.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:45 am to Cosmo
quote:this is what I used to tell my dealer when I was in withdrawals
Gouging on things necessary for survival is obviously fricked up
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:46 am to CatfishJohn
Should have expected the OT to favor protecting business and corporations over the consumer, but I had some hope
Government is not setting the price. It is limiting the percent increase during a declared emergency to protect the actual constituents, which would be the consumer, and not the business, a non-living entity
Government is not setting the price. It is limiting the percent increase during a declared emergency to protect the actual constituents, which would be the consumer, and not the business, a non-living entity
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:47 am to CatfishJohn
"Price gouging" or what I like to call it "demand-based pricing" prevents hoarding and a black market.
Also, the absolute freakout ahead of a storm when there's no bottled water available kind of boggles my mind. It's like people forget that they can bottle the water that comes out of their faucet that they drink every day in whatever they have lying around
Also, the absolute freakout ahead of a storm when there's no bottled water available kind of boggles my mind. It's like people forget that they can bottle the water that comes out of their faucet that they drink every day in whatever they have lying around
This post was edited on 10/9/24 at 9:48 am
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:55 am to StTiger
quote:
Should have expected the OT to favor protecting business and corporations over the consumer, but I had some hope
Government is not setting the price. It is limiting the percent increase during a declared emergency to protect the actual constituents, which would be the consumer, and not the business, a non-living entity
They are restricting the free market by setting a ceiling on prices. As pointed out in here a few times, that could actually have a larger negative effect than staying out of it.
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