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re: Was Stalingrad necessary for Hitler to grab when he did?

Posted on 11/27/19 at 10:42 am to
Posted by BuckyCheese
Member since Jan 2015
49265 posts
Posted on 11/27/19 at 10:42 am to
They didn't need to take Stalingrad to interdict traffic on the Volga.
Posted by 4x4tiger
Louisiana
Member since Feb 2006
2851 posts
Posted on 11/27/19 at 10:42 am to
Yes. According to historians Hitler had a micro penis. He had to compensate somehow, but he tried too hard and didn’t want to appear soft.
This post was edited on 11/27/19 at 10:44 am
Posted by SundayFunday
Member since Sep 2011
9298 posts
Posted on 11/27/19 at 10:42 am to
No, it was a symbolic move that turned that city into the epitome of hell on earth.

(If anything) he should've stopped at using Artillery and bombing runs to level it and move on.
Posted by Eli Goldfinger
Member since Sep 2016
32785 posts
Posted on 11/27/19 at 10:43 am to
His generals wanted to go into Moscow, but Hitler also wanted Stalingrad as a propaganda piece.

It cost him dearly.
Posted by keakar
Member since Jan 2017
30009 posts
Posted on 11/27/19 at 10:43 am to
yes it ego and had he just bypassed it there was a very good chance for him to take over most of russia before the winter set in.

his arrogance allowed russia to move all its factories to its east coast away from the war action and that allowed russia to come back the next spring and steam roll the germans until they surrendered

much like most things in WW2 hitlers ego was the biggest reason they got defeated
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
27515 posts
Posted on 11/27/19 at 10:57 am to
There were strategic considerations to Staliningrad vis a vis the oil in the Caucuses. It is a pipeline terminus and it has a nuigue position in that things coming up from the Caspian have to move through Stalingrad in order to move to the Black Sea
Posted by stratman
NOLA
Member since Apr 2013
977 posts
Posted on 11/27/19 at 10:59 am to
The siege and battle at Stalingrad was not necessary. It was only because of the name of the city, Stalingrad, why Hitler ordered the attack. There were more strategic aims than Stalingrad but Hitler wanted to shove his Tiger Tanks up Stalin's arse.
Posted by stratman
NOLA
Member since Apr 2013
977 posts
Posted on 11/27/19 at 11:01 am to
quote:

Urban city full of civilians - no value (unless you need slave labor). On the contrary, capturing a bunch of civilians means you now have to assign personnel to occupy the area and watch/guard them.



You are absolutely right. Military campaigns or waged for securing something of value. Stalingrad was humiliation that turned on Hitler.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
36035 posts
Posted on 11/27/19 at 11:14 am to
Stalingrad and Moscow justifiably so get the most attention, but why did the Germans not take Leningrad but instead decided to lay in for a long siege?
Posted by blueboy
Member since Apr 2006
56343 posts
Posted on 11/27/19 at 11:16 am to
I was really disappointed during the world cup when Germany was one game away but failed to advance to face Russia in St. Petersberg. That would have been awesome.
Posted by IAmNERD
Member since May 2017
19222 posts
Posted on 11/27/19 at 11:24 am to
quote:

The Russians saw their opportunity by concentrating their attack on the Romanians who lacked just about anything, anti-tank weapons, artillery, coordinated air support, trucks and above all will.

Had decent German units been protecting the flanks, Stalingrad doesn't happen the way it does

Or had the Germans actually listened to the Romanians when they told them they were way undersupplied and vulnerable, maybe their flanks don't get caught so easily. But the Germans were going down either way once the Soviet counter started anyways. Maybe they hold out a little while longer on the flanks had they been properly equipped, but the counter was just too much for them to hold off after the winter they'd gone through and the amount of shite the Soviets counterattacked with.
This post was edited on 11/27/19 at 11:27 am
Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Savannah
Member since Sep 2012
17486 posts
Posted on 11/27/19 at 11:27 am to
Since we are doing what-ifs, Hitler should have done all he can in the ETO before moving to Russia. He had the RAF, and Britain, on the ropes before switching to civilian targets. Do that, and Britain falls which would have led to no staging base for the US. Then, and only then, should he have turned his attention. Well, after making sure supplies were adequate, etc. But I do agree on the oil fields post.
Posted by deltaland
Member since Mar 2011
90614 posts
Posted on 11/27/19 at 11:30 am to
quote:

seems as if it was an act of over-confidence and arrogance.


It was.

His troops up north had Moscow literally in sight when he diverted them, and had the Russians retreating. He could have taken Moscow and rode out the winter but instead thought he had time to go get Stalingrad. When he did this it allowed Stalins troops from eastern Siberia to arrive to reinforce Stalingrad and they were prepared for the harsh winter.

Also Japan promising not to attack Russia on the east really fricked Hitler. That decisions and Pearl Harbor by the Japs really fricked Hitlers plans up, along with the Italians failure in Greece and North Africa
Posted by ZappBrannigan
Member since Jun 2015
7692 posts
Posted on 11/27/19 at 11:35 am to
Pure ego trip
Posted by Carl Tuckerson
The wind-swept plains
Member since Oct 2019
1026 posts
Posted on 11/27/19 at 11:36 am to
The whole operation was rushed because the Germans launched a desperate preemptive strike—the Soviets were amassing the largest invasion force in history on the German border, and the Germans frankly got lucky that they weren’t completely destroyed themselves in the first few weeks of a late summer Soviet attack. Even after capturing massive personnel and supplies on the border by surprising the Soviets, the Germans were outnumbered and outgunned.

Given this, going for a knockout punch by quickly trying to seize the three key objectives makes sense to me. They were not winning a prolonged conflict unless they pushed the Russians back past the Caspian and seized most of their wartime production, and that couldn’t occur until those three cities were KOed.
Posted by deltaland
Member since Mar 2011
90614 posts
Posted on 11/27/19 at 11:39 am to
quote:

The episode for instance on how we won the battle of midway is pretty unsettling. It was dumb luck really.


There was a lot of dumb luck in WW2. I mean Dday was successful because we tricked Hitler into thinking we were launching the invasion 200 miles north of where we actually invaded. We did this by putting thousands of inflatable balloons that looked like Jeep’s, planes, and tanks along the English Channel banks
Posted by ninthward
Boston, MA
Member since May 2007
20416 posts
Posted on 11/27/19 at 11:42 am to
quote:

That and he should have delivered the knock out punch and taken Moscow
This
Posted by mastersoftext
Member since Nov 2019
126 posts
Posted on 11/27/19 at 12:13 pm to
Hitler had no choice but to invade Russia.

He knew Russia couldn’t be trusted as they were responsible for polish incursions and attacks on German soil and for atrocities against Germanic people in Danzig.
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
98785 posts
Posted on 11/27/19 at 12:20 pm to
No.

Oilfields in the Caucasus should have been his primary goal, with a robust rear-guard defense. Once he locked that down and started moving on Moscow (isolating Stalingrad), it's very likely that Stalin would have sued for peace.
Posted by yatesdog38
in your head rent free
Member since Sep 2013
12737 posts
Posted on 11/27/19 at 12:27 pm to
yeah it was an overstep. He should have just stuck with maintaining StubHub, but instead he got greedy and it became under communist control. Damn shame we let communists rip us off.
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