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Was Ludendorff a competent general?

Posted on 3/23/18 at 9:37 am
Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
51395 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 9:37 am
He won in the East and use of Stormtrooper tactics was brilliant in terms of breaking through the enemy lines.

However, did he truly understand logistics? Didn't plan for supplying troops when the big advances were made, wasted a million troops lives on the 1918 offensive, and left a million troops in the east. Also didn't take care of important tasks such as food production when he took over economy and pulled men and horses out of the fields.
Posted by haikarate
Member since May 2011
1515 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 9:38 am to
He was a cuck
Posted by Tiger Prawn
Member since Dec 2016
21896 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 9:51 am to
quote:

wasted a million troops lives on the 1918 offensive


He did nazi that coming
Posted by Fewer Kilometers
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2007
36041 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 9:54 am to
Wonder Woman skewered him fairly easily.
Posted by Rooco
Member since May 2012
486 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 9:55 am to
Hi I'm Indy Neidell, welcome to the Great War
Posted by WinnPtiger
Fort Worth
Member since Mar 2011
23876 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 9:55 am to
more competent than Moltke. both were emotionally unstable though
Posted by GeauxColonels
Tottenham Fan | LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
25604 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 10:04 am to
Sounds like someone needs to do some Hardcore History listening.
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
108296 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 10:16 am to
He was in the start and the middle of the war, but I think he became unhinged by the end. I can’t blame him at all for this. I sure as hell couldn’t handle that shite and would have a full mental breakdown for sure. You either have to be a total sociopath or a one in a million man like Churchill to be able to stomach that responsibility and come out whole.
Posted by Champagne
Already Conquered USA.
Member since Oct 2007
48346 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 10:22 am to
Ludendorff was a very competent general.

The reason why he planned the Spring 1918 Victory Offensives in phases is precisely because he understood the constraints imposed by logistics. IMHO, he should have placed more emphasis on Operation Michael with the objective of reaching the Channel coast, but, that kind of build-up and logistical sustainment of the offensive may not have been logistically possible.

He was definitely over-worked, however. Also, there is always room to find controversy in some of his decisions, but, that goes for every military leader in all times. That's what makes military history so fascinating.

Final point: We can't seriously fault Ludendorff for not being a logistical "Wizard" when the entire German General Staff in two World Wars all demonstrated deficiencies when planning sustainment of logistics support throughout all phases of major offensives.
Posted by Cooter Davenport
Austin, TX
Member since Apr 2012
9006 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 10:31 am to
quote:

You either have to be a total sociopath or a one in a million man like Churchill to be able to stomach that responsibility and come out whole.


I think Churchill WAS a sociopath.

Have you read a good biography of him?

He was essentially abandoned by his parents and raised alone by a nanny amid aristocratic conditions and packed off to elite boarding schools as young as possible.

He didn’t have a nurturing childhood but had a ton of money and dare I say privileges and then was shaped by the fricked up British boarding school system.

It made for a unique psychology.

Throughout his politicomilitary career he constantly flip/flopped his beliefs and positons like the wind and never took ownership of his failures, always blaming others or conditions.

Now, thankfully that was ideal for surviving Dunkirk and the Blitz without breaking down like Ludendorff did. Churchill’s personality enabled him to just slough it off and not take it personally and trudge on in endless inflated self-confidence. That is what Britain needed, but I definitely think he was sociopathically inclined. That’s a lot of what made him the perfect man for the job.
This post was edited on 3/23/18 at 10:34 am
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
108296 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 10:52 am to
quote:

I think Churchill WAS a sociopath.


As I was typing that I did begin thinking “Wait, is Churchill as sociopath?” I know he’s a huge a-hole and a hardcore alcoholic, but thinking it through I don’t think he was a sociopath. He was a textbook narcissist though.
This post was edited on 3/23/18 at 10:53 am
Posted by Champagne
Already Conquered USA.
Member since Oct 2007
48346 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 10:54 am to
And Churchill did not plan military operations to the extent that Ludendorff did.

The comparison b/w Winnie and Ludendorff is not legit, unless you want to compare them based on their Female Impersonator abilities alone, in which case it is a "toss-up".
Posted by SCLSUMuddogs
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2010
6860 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 10:57 am to
quote:

However, did he truly understand logistics? Didn't plan for supplying troops when the big advances were made, wasted a million troops lives on the 1918 offensive, and left a million troops in the east. Also didn't take care of important tasks such as food production when he took over economy and pulled men and horses out of the field


To be fair, the logistics of traveling such vast distances has been a struggle for Generals throughout history. For example, you can likely attribute flawed logistics to the fall of the Persian empire (The war in Greece).

This was only compounded by modern warfare, and even more so because of the scope of the schlieffen plan. So, while it's definitely a negative for him, if you look at it in the context of 1916 it's not as poor planning as it seems.
Posted by RandySavage
Member since May 2012
30840 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 11:42 am to
After nearly 4 years of stagnation they were probably shocked they were able to actually make the initial advances that they did.
Posted by Champagne
Already Conquered USA.
Member since Oct 2007
48346 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 11:43 am to
1916? We are talking about Ludendorff's 1918 Spring Offensives.

The Schlieffen Plan was 1914, and interestingly enough, as I learned recently, logistics for the Germany's First Army that approached Paris was good enough throughout the campaign and the First Battle of the Marne. Germany lost the First Battle of the Marne not because they ran out of supplies, but, because France had managed to mass an extremely powerful counter-attack force on the German First Army's right flank.

First Army was totally out-numbered and was defeated by very aggressive offensive action by France's Sixth Army and other forces opposing the German units near Paris.

France was able to strategically redeploy by rail strong forces from their right flank and deploy them in and near Paris relatively undetected. The British Expeditionary Forces deliberately "slow-walked" their advance during the Battle of the Marne in order to reduce casualties by avoiding assault on anything stronger than a German cavalry screen.

Of course, you won't get the truth about the BEF's role in the Battle of the Marne in any military history written by a British author. British historians are generally published only if their versions of history align with the message disseminated by British propaganda, which is traditionally very protective of British prestige.
This post was edited on 3/23/18 at 11:56 am
Posted by TejasHorn
High Plains Driftin'
Member since Mar 2007
10923 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 11:49 am to
quote:

did he truly understand logistics


Germany's downfall in both world wars. Devil's in the details and the leadership never got that.
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
108296 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 11:57 am to
quote:

Germany's downfall in both world wars. Devil's in the details and the leadership never got that.


Germany’s downfall in WWII were that they were so evil that they were counterproductive to their own detriment. Seriously, what sense does the Holocaust make when you’re fighting the biggest war in human history? Why don’t you put the Jews, gays, and gipsies on the front line and then threaten their family from there? Then Hitler invades Russia before he’s secured victory in the rest of Europe, and finally stupidly declares War on the United States. That and he backed off of Moscow when he should have gone all in on it. Without Moscow and Leningrad, Russia was basically done.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89518 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 12:27 pm to
WWI would make anyone look like a butcher.

Ludendorff (yet another Prussian) and Hindenburg made for interesting partners, although it was Hoffman (surprisingly, a Hessian), who made them both look good in the East.

Ultimately, like many micromanagers, he spread himself too thin, but I think charges of incompetence are too strong - he and von Hindenburg couldn't have been brilliant in the East and idiots in the West - there was just too much stacked against them, certainly by 1918 - we were just getting warmed up - Germany, AH, Britain, France and even the Ottomans were worn out. The West had another 2 solid years of fighting in them, bolstered by the U.S.

It was an unassailable logistical/manpower challenge.
Posted by lsudave1
Baton Metairie
Member since Jan 2005
7316 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 12:36 pm to
I have a great video about Ludendorf actually, I think you will thoroughly enjoy it. LINK
Posted by SCLSUMuddogs
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2010
6860 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 1:01 pm to
It was just a typo big dog. Yes the Schlieffen Plan was original planned years prior to be the first offensive; however many of the manuevers done after the plan broke down had extremely similar elements. Also the Schlieffen plan is what put them so far into enemy lines in the first place.
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