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Posted on 7/22/15 at 8:18 am to SECdragonmaster
quote:
What would be SO DIFFICULT to just provide respect to the officer no matter what his/her tone?
I agree with this. I would have put the smoke out. She did not. He decided then that she needed to be put in her place.
He is stupid for multiple reasons:
1.He totally forgot that he originally turned around to follow her because she blew through a stop sign.
2. He forgot to tell her he was only giving her a warning until after everything escalated.
3. He forgot that he asked her about being upset. When she answered him he was stunned and just said "Are you through?"
4. He had no reason to pull her out of the car. This is why he had no answer to the twenty times she asked, "Why am I being arrested?" I get I that at that point she was belligerent. He caused it though.
5. He lied about his actions in his reporting to his supervisor, knowing he was on video.
Posted on 7/22/15 at 8:20 am to Hangit
Just so we are clear, a cop has almost unlimited authority to order someone out of the car. That order was not illegal.
Posted on 7/22/15 at 8:21 am to CorporateTiger
quote:
Just so we are clear, a cop has almost unlimited authority to order someone out of the car. That order was not illegal.
Are you sure? Can you link something backing up that claim? I'm not trolling, i just don't know that that's actually true.
Posted on 7/22/15 at 8:23 am to ULSU
quote:
Has anyone figured out the law she broke that got her arrested?
This seems to be a reoccurring question. When u are pulled over and given a ticket the cop has two choices;
A) Have you sign ticket with the understanding that you (violator) will either pay at a later date or follow through with court proceedings. Then everyone leaves scene.
B) Arrest and handcuff you and bring you into the station in order for you to handle the traffic fine right then.The arrest is due to the traffic violation and the fine attached to it. A lot of times this happens when people refuse to sign ticket or out-of-towners. Basically, your signature on the ticket is saying "I promise to handle this ticket".
We could be arrested and taken in for every minor traffic violation (along as there is a fine), but the jails and police and us citizens obviously don't want to handle it this way.
The officer chose "B" which was legal.
Posted on 7/22/15 at 8:25 am to TexasTiger1984
Pennsylvania v. Mimms and the various cases coming thereafter
Posted on 7/22/15 at 8:27 am to Nativebullet
The arrest for traffic infraction (from what I've read) is relatively unique to Texas. It is really used to inventory cars for drugs
Posted on 7/22/15 at 8:29 am to CorporateTiger
quote:
Pennsylvania v. Mimms and the various cases coming thereafter
Pennsylvania v. Mimms, 434 U.S. 106 (1977), is a United States Supreme Court criminal law decision holding that a police officer ordering a person out of a car following a traffic stop and conducting a pat-down to check for weapons did not violate the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution.
Would that apply to this case? There was no probable cause to ask her to exit the vehicle. But I'm no lawyer.
Posted on 7/22/15 at 8:32 am to TexasTiger1984
His actions were wrong. He will lose his job. Her family will get paid.
Al and Jesse have not showed up because there is no angle to work that puts money in their pockets too.
It was established that he was planning to give her a warning. Her questioning if his request was mandatory made him decide to punish her. He did not answer her on that either because it did not advance his agenda.
Her killing herself shows she was unstable. It could have happened from getting the wrong dipping sauce with her Mcnuggets, had he let her sign and go.
That is not what happened though. He and the taxpayers will pay for his actions.
Al and Jesse have not showed up because there is no angle to work that puts money in their pockets too.
It was established that he was planning to give her a warning. Her questioning if his request was mandatory made him decide to punish her. He did not answer her on that either because it did not advance his agenda.
Her killing herself shows she was unstable. It could have happened from getting the wrong dipping sauce with her Mcnuggets, had he let her sign and go.
That is not what happened though. He and the taxpayers will pay for his actions.
Posted on 7/22/15 at 8:33 am to TexasTiger1984
Technically, and I could articulate it in court, that cigarette could be considered a weapon when you take into account her behavior.
Posted on 7/22/15 at 8:34 am to TexasTiger1984
quote:
Would that apply to this case? There was no probable cause to ask her to exit the vehicle. But I'm no lawyer.
Yes. The PC is subjective and comes in all forms. Tone of voice. Fidgeting. No eye contact. or in this case, attitude...but I'm sure they would word it different.
Posted on 7/22/15 at 8:34 am to Rebelgator
quote:
Technically, and I could articulate it in court, that cigarette could be considered a weapon when you take into account her behavior.
Take a stab at it, I'm interested in hearing how a lawyer could make that argument
Posted on 7/22/15 at 8:39 am to TigerHam85
quote:
Overall, I believe the law enforcement office had the right to pull her over because in the video it is clear that she failed to signal her lane change, and from what it sounds she resisted arrest. It's an unfortunate turn of events that clearly forced her to take her own life
Baloney.
The cop had no basis to arrest her. She was perfectly willing to sign the ticket. She can smoke in her car if she wants to. She didn't like it - who would? The cop egged her on to the lane change in the first place by tailgating her.
More cop playing tough guy and escalating something when it didn't need to be escalated.
This post was edited on 7/22/15 at 8:41 am
Posted on 7/22/15 at 8:39 am to Rebelgator
quote:
I could articulate it in court
Her behavior when he told her to put it out was non aggressive and calm. Was she irritated she got a ticket yes, but in no way was her behavior aggressive. You may be able to "articulate" a sentence in court but no one would buy it. I would hope that wouldn't be your angle if you're an attorney...I would dismiss you immediately as an idiot.
Posted on 7/22/15 at 8:40 am to TexasTiger1984
I'm in law enforcement. Federal to be exact. 
Just stating that it wouldn't be that trickery for 90% of people to feel a burning object could pose harm to them.
Just stating that it wouldn't be that trickery for 90% of people to feel a burning object could pose harm to them.
This post was edited on 7/22/15 at 8:42 am
Posted on 7/22/15 at 8:51 am to Overbrook
quote:
The cop had no basis to arrest her.
Sure he did.
quote:
This seems to be a reoccurring question. When u are pulled over and given a ticket the cop has two choices;
A) Have you sign ticket with the understanding that you (violator) will either pay at a later date or follow through with court proceedings. Then everyone leaves scene.
B) Arrest and handcuff you and bring you into the station in order for you to handle the traffic fine right then.The arrest is due to the traffic violation and the fine attached to it. A lot of times this happens when people refuse to sign ticket or out-of-towners. Basically, your signature on the ticket is saying "I promise to handle this ticket".
We could be arrested and taken in for every minor traffic violation (along as there is a fine), but the jails and police and us citizens obviously don't want to handle it this way.
The officer chose "B" which was legal.
Posted on 7/22/15 at 8:52 am to BoxmanTiger
quote:
Her behavior when he told her to put it out was non aggressive and calm. Was she irritated she got a ticket yes, but in no way was her behavior aggressive. You may be able to "articulate" a sentence in court but no one would buy it. I would hope that wouldn't be your angle if you're an attorney...I would dismiss you immediately as an idiot.
Articulating PC in court is ridiculously easy. If you can't get to PC on something like this as an officer you won't be on the force long.
I would be willing to be the farm that the officer originally thought she was a drug mule. Just my experience being around the justice system.
Posted on 7/22/15 at 8:55 am to TexasTiger1984
quote:
Would that apply to this case? There was no probable cause to ask her to exit the vehicle. But I'm no lawyer.
Getting to PC is ridiculously easy plus there are other cases spawned from Mimms that more fully flesh out the theory.
Posted on 7/22/15 at 8:57 am to Rebelgator
quote:
Technically, and I could articulate it in court, that cigarette could be considered a weapon when you take into account her behavior.
I was wondering if she purposefully blew smoke in his direction after politely being asked to put out the cigarette. That may have been what triggered him to order her out of the car.
Either way, he lost control of the situation. Tragic that she had mental issues that led to her taking her own life. Sad for her family.
Posted on 7/22/15 at 9:00 am to CorporateTiger
quote:
I would be willing to be the farm that the officer originally thought she was a drug mule. Just my experience being around the justice system.
Cuz she black?
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