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Message
1
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:08 am to jfan244888
quote:
NTSB says the left engine caught fire and detached in the update.
I'm assuming this is just a general thought right? Its not necessarily that it detached due to the fire. It could have detached then caught fire, or the same issue that caused the fire caused it to detach, or the same issue that caused it to detach caused the fire?
ETA; how fast are those fire alarms? I assume damn fast. In other words, the videos I've seen the wing is engulfed. But I'd assume the fire alarm would have went off before that? Jet fuel doesn't catch fire easily right? So it has to be fairly catastrophic to cause a fire? In other words, could the engine detach and NOT cause a fire?
This post was edited on 11/6/25 at 10:10 am
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:57 am to AUTimbo
quote:
However the pic of the engine lying on the runway didn’t seem to have been missing any stages. And I wouldn’t think a catastrophic engine failure alone would cause the engine to detach. But it’s possible.
The engine is lying in the grass on the RH side of the runway in the pics I've seen, as well as part of the cowling. If so it was a pretty violent separation.
baldona
quote:
ETA; how fast are those fire alarms? I assume damn fast. In other words, the videos I've seen the wing is engulfed. But I'd assume the fire alarm would have went off before that? Jet fuel doesn't catch fire easily right? So it has to be fairly catastrophic to cause a fire? In other words, could the engine detach and NOT cause a fire?
Fire warning before V1, abort. After V1, silence the bell, fly the airplane, work the problem.
I'm of the same thought of mind of there was a catastrophic failure that caused the separation that caused the fire and it wasn't the fire that caused the separation. They have both black boxes and will figure it out...hopefully.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 11:09 am to goldennugget
This story was published on October 29th and contains a large amount of data on UPS And FedEx aircraft in service.
It is interesting that the MD-11F that crashed at 34 years and 3 months old is one of the older planes in the UPS fleet but is far from the oldest.
The oldest active UPS plane in the fleet is a Boeing 757-200PF which is around 38.2 years old.
The average age of the UPS fleet is 25.3 years. FedEx is not much younger at an average of 23 years old and has a plane that is 42.7 years old with 9 others that are 37 years old or older.
Planes are obviously maintained and somewhat refurbished quite often, but there are dozens of very old planes out there. It is probably like driving a well-maintained/refurbished 15 to 20 year old vehicle but with the obvious difference of being able to pull over to the shoulder of the road if a vehicle has a major issue.
UPS and FedEx Fleet Analysis
It is interesting that the MD-11F that crashed at 34 years and 3 months old is one of the older planes in the UPS fleet but is far from the oldest.
The oldest active UPS plane in the fleet is a Boeing 757-200PF which is around 38.2 years old.
The average age of the UPS fleet is 25.3 years. FedEx is not much younger at an average of 23 years old and has a plane that is 42.7 years old with 9 others that are 37 years old or older.
Planes are obviously maintained and somewhat refurbished quite often, but there are dozens of very old planes out there. It is probably like driving a well-maintained/refurbished 15 to 20 year old vehicle but with the obvious difference of being able to pull over to the shoulder of the road if a vehicle has a major issue.
UPS and FedEx Fleet Analysis
Posted on 11/6/25 at 11:37 am to 777Tiger
quote:
we've been using something similar for almost 30 years
Good to know. I assumed they probably did but you know what they say about assuming
Got into a heated conversation with a light colonel once over getting a recheck (red cap) on a 111 about to taxi out for it’s sortie. Colonel tells me we can get that check sample when the bird gets back. I tell him this bird may take off but in my professional opinion it won’t make it back here to land. He hangs up, check sample comes in 5 mins later and its going WAY off the scale. I call for another red cap and the colonel gets three words into his tirade before someone in the background tells him the pilot was shutting the bird down due to vibration from the no. 1 eng.
Colonel mumbles something and hangs up again.
And so the humble life of an under-appreciated quality troop goes on…
;)
Posted on 11/6/25 at 3:51 pm to NorthEndZone
MD11 is still being used as a freighter mainly due to cargo capacity. It dwarfs everything but the 74 variants and 777F which is what makes the money. No need to change what isn't broke, and those things have long since paid for themselves.
I'm sure some MBA in Louisville have done the cost/benefit calculations of keeping the MD running vs buying brand new 777s, and given all the issues Boeing is having its probably for the best right now in the short term.
Fedex apparently isn't mothballing theres until 2032.
I'm sure some MBA in Louisville have done the cost/benefit calculations of keeping the MD running vs buying brand new 777s, and given all the issues Boeing is having its probably for the best right now in the short term.
Fedex apparently isn't mothballing theres until 2032.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 5:28 pm to jfan244888
Posted on 11/6/25 at 5:30 pm to When in Rome
Posted on 11/6/25 at 5:56 pm to When in Rome
LINK
NTSB briefing from today. Of note is they say they found fan blade pieces while walking both runways.Also says both recorders were found and downloaded all info. They'll listening to it tomorrow.
NTSB briefing from today. Of note is they say they found fan blade pieces while walking both runways.Also says both recorders were found and downloaded all info. They'll listening to it tomorrow.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 6:03 pm to jfan244888
quote:
NTSB briefing from today. Of note is they say they found fan blade pieces while walking both runways.Also says both recorders were found and downloaded all info. They'll listening to it tomorrow.
Sounds like the engine flee up and over the plane and debris damaged engine 2. Terrible.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 6:43 pm to NorthEndZone
quote:
The average age of the UPS fleet is 25.3 years. FedEx is not much younger at an average of 23 years old and has a plane that is 42.7 years old with 9 others that are 37 years old or older.
Keep in mind that though they are old in years, probably not that high on cycles. These planes are typically not making six or seven flights a day. Now some are converted passenger planes so cycle count can vary.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 7:54 pm to Free888
quote:
Talked to my son-in-law who talked to his dad. There was too much weight to get that kind of lift with two engines, especially with the uneven distribution of power. FWIW, his dad looked at his old flight logs and realized he flew that actual jet a few years ago.
Not sure if there's a typo in there or not. By definition transport category aircraft with three engines have to be able to take off with the most critical engine failed, so too much weight technically is not the issue here. They (almost 100% certainty) had legal takeoff data for their weight that would have allowed them to fly away with one engine failed.
If two engines fail you're probably not going to climb away. Once the engine departed the airframe causing unknown structural damage you are pretty much a test pilot and dependent on skill and a lot of luck to get back on the ground in one piece.
Also, the fuel diagrams in the earlier post are simplified systems diagrams, not technical schematics that show the actual routing of fuel/hydraulic lines, etc.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 7:57 pm to Free888
quote:
Talked to my son-in-law who talked to his dad
and there we have it
Posted on 11/6/25 at 9:17 pm to flyingtexastiger
LINK
Blancolliro update vid.
Tldw: He thinks the engine failed first, pylon failed, then engine separated.
It's close to AA191 ( due to the pylon failure) but is probably most similar to another American flight:383 in 2016.
For that flight, the engine blew up and pierced the fuel tank during takeoff setting the right wing on fire. They were able to get stopped and evacuated so no loss of life. The cause was a fan disks failure. The plane was a 767, but had the same engines the MD11 had (CF6)
Blancolliro update vid.
Tldw: He thinks the engine failed first, pylon failed, then engine separated.
It's close to AA191 ( due to the pylon failure) but is probably most similar to another American flight:383 in 2016.
For that flight, the engine blew up and pierced the fuel tank during takeoff setting the right wing on fire. They were able to get stopped and evacuated so no loss of life. The cause was a fan disks failure. The plane was a 767, but had the same engines the MD11 had (CF6)
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:05 pm to flyingtexastiger
quote:
Not sure if there's a typo in there or not. By definition transport category aircraft with three engines have to be able to take off with the most critical engine failed, so too much weight technically is not the issue here. They (almost 100% certainty) had legal takeoff data for their weight that would have allowed them to fly away with one engine failed.
I certainly may have lost something in the translation, as neither my son-in-law or I have any experience whatsoever, so will go with your expertise. He talked to his dad tonight, the captain was actually a first officer for him on a number of flights a few years back, said he was a nice guy and a good captain. His dad is talking it hard.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:42 pm to AUTimbo
Just curious, were you a pro supr in the Air Force? You sound like a superintendent. No offense meant, I was a pilot scheduler for a few years. The way you talk reminds me of some of those conversations I had mediating between maintenance and my boss.
This post was edited on 11/6/25 at 10:50 pm
Posted on 11/7/25 at 9:56 am to HeyCap
Posted on 11/7/25 at 9:59 am to HeyCap
This post was edited on 11/7/25 at 10:07 am
Posted on 11/7/25 at 10:01 am to HeyCap
CVR (left) FDR (right)
Posted on 11/7/25 at 10:05 am to When in Rome
quote:
R.I.P. — UPS identifies 3 pilots killed in Louisville plane crash
I’m also hearing through the grapevine there were 4 jumpseaters onboard.
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