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Started By
Message
re: Update: Judge rules there's probable cause to charge officers for12 yr old death
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:51 pm to ManBearTiger
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:51 pm to ManBearTiger
quote:
You're the one who needs a dose of reality you delusional frick
Says the guy claiming the cops should have just stood there with their thumbs up their asses while a suspect, who they were told was armed, reached for what appeared to be a gun.
2
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:52 pm to brass2mouth
quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the kid remove/paint over the bright orange markers that indicated it was a toy?
I was wondering this as well. Aren't those things legally required to have a bright and visible orange tip at the end of the barrel?
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:58 pm to Jcorye1
The video looked like something that happens in GTA. This is what the media should have been hammer about instead of the stupid Micheal Brown shite.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:59 pm to RB10
quote:
Says the guy claiming the cops should have just stood there with their thumbs up their asses while a suspect, who they were told was armed, reached for what appeared to be a gun.
We already told you what they were supposed to do- no, required to do. I can understand you ignoring that though, since it completely negates your argument.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 10:01 pm to REG861
quote:
That's exactly why he should have followed procedure and kept a save distance to carefully assess the situation, rather than putting himself and his partner in potential immediate danger.
I agree with you that they made a very poor decision approaching it in the manner that they did. I'm referring to the moment the "suspect" pulled the gun, toy or not, out. I can't rationally blame a cop for opening fire in that split second where they thought a weapon was being pulled. It's a tragedy, and the cops should go to prison for manslaughter, but not murder.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 10:02 pm to Slinky
quote:
The highly unusual move is the latest sign that some African-Americans in Cleveland and around the country have lost confidence in a system that they see as too quick to side with police officers accused of using excessive force against blacks.
Let me guess, a white journalist not from Cleveland wrote this?
Posted on 6/9/15 at 10:04 pm to REG861
quote:
Everything you said goes against standard police procedure and tactics. Police are taught, when facing a possible armed suspect, to "take cover at a safe distance and create a barrier between themselves and the other person....Next officers should draw their weapons and command the suspect to drop their gun and get down on the ground."
That is a load of bullshite.
Police are not trained to:
quote:
when facing a possible armed suspect, to "take cover at a safe distance and create a barrier between themselves and the other person....Next officers should draw their weapons and command the suspect to drop their gun and get down on the ground."
No.....just no.
This post was edited on 6/9/15 at 10:06 pm
Posted on 6/9/15 at 10:08 pm to RB10
quote:
I agree with you that they made a very poor decision approaching it in the manner that they did. I'm referring to the moment the "suspect" pulled the gun, toy or not, out. I can't rationally blame a cop for opening fire in that split second where they thought a weapon was being pulled. It's a tragedy, and the cops should go to prison for manslaughter, but not murder.
I see where you're coming from. We're not as far apart as I thought. While I adamantly believe the cop who shot him should be charged for something, I'll agree murder doesn't necessarily fit the bill. This isn't the cop in Charleston shooting the guy in the back. Had the cops here taken the right steps in surveying the situation rather than rolling up like Mario Andretti, they wouldn't have been in this situation but once there he had to react quickly. I'll meet you halfway and agree on manslaughter here.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 10:11 pm to theenemy
quote:
quote:
Everything you said goes against standard police procedure and tactics. Police are taught, when facing a possible armed suspect, to "take cover at a safe distance and create a barrier between themselves and the other person....Next officers should draw their weapons and command the suspect to drop their gun and get down on the ground."
That is a load of bull shite.
Police are not trained to:
OK Dirty Harry, you should drive over to Kansas City and tell their Police Department they're doing it all wrong then
LINK
I'm only quoting tactical experts who advise police departments, including Cleveland
LINK
This post was edited on 6/9/15 at 10:25 pm
Posted on 6/9/15 at 10:27 pm to REG861
quote:
you should drive over to Kansas City and tell their Police Department they're doing it all wrong then
That training is about volatile offenders that are not following orders.
Not calls of an armed offender.
An armed person, you have to approach and make contact with him/her. You can't take cover at a "safe distance" because you can't risk the offender shooting a bystander.
You have to make an approach hoping the offender allows you to talk them into giving up instead of drawing their weapon.
If they draw their weapon then it is what it is.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 10:30 pm to REG861
quote:
I'm only quoting tactical experts who advise police departments, including Cleveland
You know what makes them "tactical experts"......creating a private company and saying we are tactical experts.
Anybody can claim to be an expert.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 10:33 pm to LSU1NSEC
quote:
kids walk around this area all the time with pellet rifles, 22 cal rifles, etc, etc, etc. If a cop rolled up on them and killed them, that cop would be in some deep shyt here.
Yep, me and my buddies used to walk to the back of my neighborhood and play airsoft all the time. A couple of the guys had the realistic-automatic rifle-looking ones. This cop would have gone ballistic
Posted on 6/9/15 at 10:35 pm to theenemy
quote:
That training is about volatile offenders that are not following orders.
Not calls of an armed offender.
An armed person, you have to approach and make contact with him/her. You can't take cover at a "safe distance" because you can't risk the offender shooting a bystander.
You have to make an approach hoping the offender allows you to talk them into giving up instead of drawing their weapon.
If they draw their weapon then it is what it is.
This is hilarious. We always hear about "officer safety" being of utmost importance. Now you're saying the officer is told to sacrifice his life for civilians. Which is it?
Posted on 6/9/15 at 10:38 pm to theenemy
quote:
You know what makes them "tactical experts"......creating a private company and saying we are tactical experts.
Anybody can claim to be an expert.
I know what you're saying (I've worked on motions to exclude expert testimony) but...
"Hubert Williams, 30-year police veteran and former president of the Police Foundation, said Garmback should not have pulled the police car so close to where Tamir was standing if they believed he was armed."
He's not some academic proposing a theory. He's speaking on 3 decades of experience. Also, you admitted yourself that cops are trained to:
quote:
approach and make contact with him/her. You can't take cover at a "safe distance" because you can't risk the offender shooting a bystander.
You have to make an approach hoping the offender allows you to talk them into giving up instead of drawing their weapon.
The cops here didn't do that. Or anything close to what you say is the 'real' procedure. No 'approach,' unless you count flying up in the car and tumbling out guns a-blazing 3 seconds after. It was reckless and dangerous on their part.
This post was edited on 6/9/15 at 10:39 pm
Posted on 6/9/15 at 10:38 pm to ManBearTiger
quote:
Now you're saying the officer is told to sacrifice his life for civilians.
Sacrifice? Where did I say sacrifice his life?
Posted on 6/9/15 at 10:38 pm to theenemy
quote:
You know what makes them "tactical experts"......creating a private company and saying we are tactical experts.
Good point, private companies are much more effective and professional in their fields than governmental departments. They also have much higher standards for employees. Obviously the answer is to dissolve all police departments and contract out that service.
This post was edited on 6/9/15 at 10:42 pm
Posted on 6/9/15 at 10:39 pm to ManBearTiger
quote:
Yep, me and my buddies used to walk to the back of my neighborhood and play airsoft all the time. A couple of the guys had the realistic-automatic rifle-looking ones. This cop would have gone ballistic
A group of kids playing with air soft guns is a bit different than a single kid in a park by himself with a gun.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 10:41 pm to theenemy
quote:
Sacrifice? Where did I say sacrifice his life?
quote:
approach and make contact with him/her. You can't take cover at a "safe distance" because you can't risk the offender shooting a bystander.
you are clearly implying that the officer should forego concerns for his own safety in order to put a stop to the perceived threat to bystanders. Pretty much a poster child for an example of sacrifice.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 10:42 pm to Mr. Wayne
quote:
This incident was just a tragedy that I don't blame on anyone. The kid was most likely approaching and pulling the gun out to show them that it was fake but there is no way in Hell the officer could have known that. Gun drawn by potential suspect equals shot fired. I am sure this boy was scared and thought he was doing the right thing, but looking back it was a mistake that cost him his life. Instead of all the race baiting, we instead need to teach our youth about the proper way to act in a police officer confrontation. Telling them they hate black people is not helping, it's making it worse.
How about we teach police officers how to confront kids?
Posted on 6/9/15 at 10:44 pm to ManBearTiger
quote:
Good point, private companies are much more effective and professional in their fields than governmental departments. They also have much higher standards for employees. Obviously the answer is to dissolve all police departments and contract out that service.
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