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re: Update: Judge rules there's probable cause to charge officers for12 yr old death
Posted on 6/9/15 at 10:45 pm to REG861
Posted on 6/9/15 at 10:45 pm to REG861
quote:
Hubert Williams, 30-year police veteran and former president of the Police Foundation, said Garmback should not have pulled the police car so close to where Tamir was standing if they believed he was armed."
I disagree. The car is your cover. As long as the gun is not in the violators hand.....that is when you need to approach and make contact.
0
Posted on 6/9/15 at 10:51 pm to RB10
quote:
Says the guy claiming the cops should have just stood there with their thumbs up their asses while a suspect, who they were told was armed, reached for what appeared to be a gun.
And there's the delusion again.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 10:51 pm to REG861
Too me approaching the suspect, is not a problem.
The question is if the officers were to quick to shoot. Was the kid drawing the weapon or not? Did they misinterpret the kids actions?
The question is if the officers were to quick to shoot. Was the kid drawing the weapon or not? Did they misinterpret the kids actions?
Posted on 6/9/15 at 10:55 pm to theenemy
quote:
The question is if the officers were to quick to shoot.
Dude... there is absolutely no question that they were too quick to shoot... there was no actual threat, so any shooting at all is too quick no matter how you slice it.
This post was edited on 6/9/15 at 10:56 pm
Posted on 6/9/15 at 10:57 pm to theenemy
quote:
Too me approaching the suspect, is not a problem.
The question is if the officers were to quick to shoot. Was the kid drawing the weapon or not? Did they misinterpret the kids actions?
I think most in this thread agree to quite the opposite. Once the cop is 15 feet from the kid, the kid reaching in his waistband is probably enough for the cop to reasonably fear for his life. It's the poor decision to drive up that close to someone who you believe has a gun that led to this tragic outcome.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 10:58 pm to ManBearTiger
quote:
Dude... there is absolutely no question that they were too quick to shoot... there was no actual threat, so any shooting at all is too quick no matter how you slice it.
Threat is based on the officer's perception.....if the officer truly believed the kid was drawing a gun to shoot someone then legally there is a threat.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:01 pm to theenemy
quote:
quote:
Dude... there is absolutely no question that they were too quick to shoot... there was no actual threat, so any shooting at all is too quick no matter how you slice it.
Threat is based on the officer's perception.....if the officer truly believed the kid was drawing a gun to shoot someone then legally there is a threat.
According to the video footage of the incident, the officer shot the kid within 2 seconds after leaving the vehicle. That's objective, not my interpretation. I find that ridiculous to suggest he could perceive the threat in that short of time or that the kid definitively reached into his waistband and the cop then reacted all within 2 seconds.
2 seconds
Edit: It looks like the officer jumps out and starts shooting immediately
This post was edited on 6/9/15 at 11:06 pm
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:03 pm to UpToPar
quote:
It's the poor decision to drive up that close to someone who you believe has a gun that led to this tragic outcome.
You have to approach the person though. You can't sit back and wait for him to do harm to someone.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:07 pm to REG861
quote:
I find that ridiculous to suggest he could perceive the threat in that short of time or that the kid definitively reached into his waistband and the cop then reacted all within 2 seconds.
It is possible. Typically it takes around .5 to 1 second to perceive danger and react.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:11 pm to REG861
And I do feel they should have stopped the vehicle with the kid in front of the front bumper not beside the car.
But I'm guessing that was just a driver error not a tactical decision.
But I'm guessing that was just a driver error not a tactical decision.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:14 pm to theenemy
quote:
You have to approach the person though. You can't sit back and wait for him to do harm to someone.
There was nobody else near him when they pulled up. Forcing a gun fight places anyone else in that park in much greater danger than slowly approaching the kid on the off chance that he is going to start running at someone and shoot them.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:19 pm to UpToPar
quote:
There was nobody else near him when they pulled up. Forcing a gun fight places anyone else in that park in much greater danger than slowly approaching the kid on the off chance that he is going to start running at someone and shoot them.
Still....You have to respond to the report of an armed suspect.
And you have to approach that suspect to determine what the threat is and get control of the situation.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:23 pm to craig8sm
quote:
I don't feel bad for that little idiot.
You're a dick.
Regardless of liability or culpability, it was a kid and that kid is dead. frick you.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:24 pm to theenemy
quote:
And I do feel they should have stopped the vehicle with the kid in front of the front bumper not beside the car.
But I'm guessing that was just a driver error not a tactical decision.
The driver error occurred when he decided to take his car offroad.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:26 pm to theenemy
quote:
You have to approach the person though. You can't sit back and wait for him to do harm to someone.
To harm someone with what exactly? I really would love to know when claiming to be a dumbass became a defense. All a cop has to claim these days is they didn't know any better, I thought he was a threat. Where did the reasonable part of those beliefs go?
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:26 pm to UpToPar
Ideally, you want to approach, stopping the car with the kid in front of the patrol car (not beside it) so that you have cover, and advise the kid to show you his hands and begin talking to him and begin the disarming process.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:30 pm to theenemy
And none of that happened. They could have approached and confronted the kid from a safe distance without creating a situation where the cop has to make a split second decision.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:32 pm to UpToPar
The cops created the situation. There is no question about that. With as quick as that cop shot after pulling up, that kid was dead whether he wanted to drop the toy or not.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:34 pm to UpToPar
quote:
They could have approached and confronted the kid from a safe distance
What is a safe distance?
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:48 pm to theenemy
100 feet? A distance where a snap decision doesn't need to be made. Not only should they have kept their distance, they probably should have ordered him to keep his hands up if they thought he was armed before getting out of the car or while remaining behind the car door.
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