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Started By
Message
re: Three Arkansas officers suspended and under investigation after video shows use of force
Posted on 8/22/22 at 7:40 am to WaWaWeeWa
Posted on 8/22/22 at 7:40 am to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
Reducing police violence from 0.05% to 0.04%
Citation for this statistic?
Even if this is the nominal rate that gets reported, it’s very easy to see that there are methodological roadblocks to determining the true rate. It’s bound to be higher.
1) Even with cameras everywhere, how many insistences don’t get filmed and therefore are more easily swept under the rug?
2) How many PDs just sweep it under the rug anyway and how many DAs fail to prosecute because they play for the same team as the PD and don’t want to upset their team mates?
3) How many cases of unnecessary haymakers to the head or head slams don’t get reported because there are still many witnesses who are conditioned to just write it off as “part of normal police business”?
Not trying to be pedantic. Just humor me with a citation just to see how they measured it.
2
Posted on 8/22/22 at 7:43 am to UndercoverBryologist
Most departments have body cameras now so most of your argument is out of the window
1) not relevant
2) this is idiotic. No DA or Chief is going to risk his career to protect some overzealous cop
3) none, because there would be a lawsuit filed in our society
1) not relevant
2) this is idiotic. No DA or Chief is going to risk his career to protect some overzealous cop
3) none, because there would be a lawsuit filed in our society
Posted on 8/22/22 at 7:44 am to pistolpete23
quote:
Goose Creek South Carolina
I'm sure meth was involved.
Posted on 8/22/22 at 7:44 am to pistolpete23
The video looks bad. By itself the video seems indefensible. Certainly there is much more to the story than what those few moments show.
All that being said, Pepperidge Farms and I can remember when if you decided to get rowdy and the sheriff tuned you up, you took your lick and went about your business. Depending on when you decided to quit, you might not be dragged unconscious to jail. Your family, dad in particular, would have thanked the sheriff and apologized for you being an arse.
Seeing this saddens me. Being a cop is very difficult work and not paid well. You are in constant danger of being attacked. You are in constant danger of losing your career even if you do everything by the book and training. If you get injured permanently, your career is over.
The way I see it, from the perspective of many years on this earth, there are two ways this can be addressed:
#1- More training, better equipment, better quality of people chosen to be the police (this option seems difficult)
#2- When the police show up, you comply 100% (within your rights of course). This is already a law we have all agreed to as a society. If you don't comply, any whippin you get to encourage you to comply is acceptable.
I guess I'm just old. The way I see it is when the cops get there, they don't know what's going on. After they get everyone under control, they can start to assess the situation. If you are the one refusing to shut up or sit still or drop the machete, you probably deserve to get some extra attention until you understand the instructions.
All that being said, Pepperidge Farms and I can remember when if you decided to get rowdy and the sheriff tuned you up, you took your lick and went about your business. Depending on when you decided to quit, you might not be dragged unconscious to jail. Your family, dad in particular, would have thanked the sheriff and apologized for you being an arse.
Seeing this saddens me. Being a cop is very difficult work and not paid well. You are in constant danger of being attacked. You are in constant danger of losing your career even if you do everything by the book and training. If you get injured permanently, your career is over.
The way I see it, from the perspective of many years on this earth, there are two ways this can be addressed:
#1- More training, better equipment, better quality of people chosen to be the police (this option seems difficult)
#2- When the police show up, you comply 100% (within your rights of course). This is already a law we have all agreed to as a society. If you don't comply, any whippin you get to encourage you to comply is acceptable.
I guess I'm just old. The way I see it is when the cops get there, they don't know what's going on. After they get everyone under control, they can start to assess the situation. If you are the one refusing to shut up or sit still or drop the machete, you probably deserve to get some extra attention until you understand the instructions.
Posted on 8/22/22 at 7:51 am to Proximo
quote:
Most departments have body cameras now so most of your argument is out of the window
Yeah, perhaps in the last 10 years (maybe more like the last 5 years).
So, are we saying the 0.02% statistics is a recent statistic? That’s what I’m trying to get at. Just want more information on it.
Obviously, cops are going to be on better behavior with a camera strapped to them all the time.
Posted on 8/22/22 at 7:52 am to UndercoverBryologist
quote:
Citation for this statistic?
It’s not a statistic. I completely fabricated it to make a point.
The point is that there can’t be a situation where we reach absolute zero cases like this. So what is an acceptable number of police brutality cases?
Trying to reach absolute zero will result in higher rates of crime as police leave and normal people don’t want to enter law enforcement because they could get prosecuted and go to jail for losing their cool a bit with a crack head who is spitting and biting them all for 60k a year and a populace that hates you. Oh and you could be killed any day you go into work on a random traffic stop.
This post was edited on 8/22/22 at 7:54 am
Posted on 8/22/22 at 7:52 am to Proximo
quote:
2) this is idiotic. No DA or Chief is going to risk his career to protect some overzealous cop
Also, let me introduce you to George Barnhill.
Posted on 8/22/22 at 7:57 am to UndercoverBryologist
It’s the same debate as climate change
Could we reach absolute zero carbon emissions? Yea probably, but you will wreck your economy in the process and many poor innocent people will starve, suffer, and die.
But hey you will be able to say you achieved your goal of absolute zero and saved the planet!
Could we reach absolute zero carbon emissions? Yea probably, but you will wreck your economy in the process and many poor innocent people will starve, suffer, and die.
But hey you will be able to say you achieved your goal of absolute zero and saved the planet!
Posted on 8/22/22 at 8:01 am to WaWaWeeWa
Your argument is retarded.
Cops can enforce the law without exceeding their authority.
The situation you are describing is largely due to political actors and policies villianizing police due to instances like this.
Cops can enforce the law without exceeding their authority.
The situation you are describing is largely due to political actors and policies villianizing police due to instances like this.
Posted on 8/22/22 at 8:01 am to GetCocky11
quote:
Are you stuck in 1964 or something?
It's not him that is stuck in the 60's, it's those police. I live about 25 minutes from Mulberry, those guys don't F around, and they're very backwoods. They don't like strangers at all to boot.
Posted on 8/22/22 at 8:02 am to OweO
quote:
They think they can go around and treat people the same way they treat their wives (domestic abuse among law enforcement is 2x higher than average).
This is such an oweo statement.
That statistic has been disproven a long time ago. Since 2000, the rate is actually LOWER than average. Yours is a neat little false statistic that seems like it could be true, but it is not.
This post was edited on 8/22/22 at 8:53 am
Posted on 8/22/22 at 8:02 am to pistolpete23
quote:
after resisting arrest
Common Denominator to all beatings
Posted on 8/22/22 at 8:04 am to Displaced
quote:
Your argument is retarded.
Cops can enforce the law without exceeding their authority.
So you think it’s reasonable to say we should never EVER have a case of excessive force?
And if the answer isn’t zero cases, what is the acceptable number of incidents a year? In other words, at what number of cases of excessive force do we have a problem?
Posted on 8/22/22 at 8:05 am to pistolpete23
Wait but he's not black. Guess no one will care.
I wonder what led up to that. Does seem excessive, though.
I wonder what led up to that. Does seem excessive, though.
Posted on 8/22/22 at 8:05 am to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
It’s not a statistic. I completely fabricated it to make a point. The point is that there can’t be a situation where we reach absolute zero cases like this. So what is an acceptable number of police brutality cases?
Actually, you were making an explicitly cost-benefit analysis argument.
You were saying that a drop of 0.02 percent to 0.00 percent police brutality did not justify a rise of 2-4 percent in crime rates.
Admittedly, it was at least an argument that made a valid point.
But now you’re saying the 0.02 percent police brutality rate was pulled out of your arse.
So it might even be 10-20 percent police brutality. What about it then? Using a cost-benefit critique, aren’t we better off with arresting or otherwise deterring 200 rogue cops even if it means a rise in a total of 75 violent crimes (net 125 bad people off the streets).
The stats matter for your argument to work.
Posted on 8/22/22 at 8:06 am to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
It’s not a statistic. I completely fabricated it to make a point.
The point is that there can’t be a situation where we reach absolute zero cases like this. So what is an acceptable number of police brutality cases?
Trying to reach absolute zero will result in higher rates of crime as police leave and normal people don’t want to enter law enforcement because they could get prosecuted and go to jail for losing their cool a bit with a crack head who is spitting and biting them all for 60k a year and a populace that hates you. Oh and you could be killed any day you go into work on a random traffic stop.
There is absolutely no reason instances like this one should exist. It looks like his hands are under control by the other two officers and he’s being held prone on the ground.
Under what circumstances is smashing his head, repeatedly, into the concrete acceptable? I really disliked the kneeing of the guy, but even then I’d listen to you try to explain it. I don’t get it but maybe there is a reasoning.
What’s the reasoning for the head smashing? All the cops had to do is remember their training and not act like abusive pieces of shite.
So to answer your question, how many cases like this are acceptable? 0. It’s an easy answer.
Posted on 8/22/22 at 8:07 am to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
So you think it’s reasonable to say we should never EVER have a case of excessive force?
I don't think it's unreasonable to say we SHOULD never have cases of excessive force.
Yes, It is an unattainable goal, but it should be the goal.
The real issue comes with how these instances are dealt with in the era of overpowered police unions and qualified immunity. Lack of consequences and accountability leads to more instances of excessive force.
Posted on 8/22/22 at 8:09 am to UndercoverBryologist
Saw the video in the OP. Not sure what led up to that, but the video certainly seems to qualify as "excessive." When you resist arrest, I have a hard time feeling bad for you. But at some point it seems like three grown men cops should be able to get control of a single person lying on the ground relatively easily. And at some point, a person getting their face bashed in and slammed into the concrete is gonna try to use their arms/hands to protect their face.
Definitely not a good look for the cops (especially the one hitting that dude's head).
Definitely not a good look for the cops (especially the one hitting that dude's head).
Posted on 8/22/22 at 8:09 am to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
So you think it’s reasonable to say we should never EVER have a case of excessive force?
And if the answer isn’t zero cases, what is the acceptable number of incidents a year? In other words, at what number of cases of excessive force do we have a problem?
Now your turn.
How many instances is too many?
Posted on 8/22/22 at 8:09 am to UndercoverBryologist
quote:
Actually, you were making an explicitly cost-benefit analysis argument.
Exactly
quote:
But now you’re saying the 0.02 percent police brutality rate was pulled out of your arse. So it might even be 10-20 percent police brutality. What about it then?
Yea this is part of my point too. What is the acceptable level of excessive force? No one has answered this yet.
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