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re: There's too much dirt in the Mississippi River

Posted on 12/12/17 at 4:22 pm to
Posted by White Roach
Member since Apr 2009
9666 posts
Posted on 12/12/17 at 4:22 pm to
quote:

Are they really just dredging it up off the river and throwing it off the back of the barge?


Check out Sid's USACE link. It sounds like they are using 42% of the sediment and have built 60-something square miles of land.
Posted by White Roach
Member since Apr 2009
9666 posts
Posted on 12/12/17 at 4:29 pm to
quote:

Fixed. For now anyway. One thing I wonder about if the river did move to the Atchafalaya is the Waterford Nuclear power Plant in St Charles parish. It relies on the Miss River for its cooling. Hope they have that contingency in their disaster plan.


If the Mississippi rerouted its flow through the Atchafalaya basin, it wouldn't happen overnight. Likewise, the salt water intrusion would be gradual over a period of months, maybe even years.

I'd guess that short of just shutting down, Waterford could run cooling water with a higher salinity than their system was designed for safely for some period of time. In the meantime, they'd be lobbying the PSC to shakedown customers for a new desalinization plant.
Posted by Captain Crackysack
Member since Oct 2017
2231 posts
Posted on 12/12/17 at 4:40 pm to
The old bridge in br is too low for ships to pass under. Done purposefully by Huey long. No ships go past br
Posted by Lake Vegas Tiger
Lake Vegas
Member since Jun 2014
3299 posts
Posted on 12/12/17 at 4:43 pm to
no its time to divert to the basin and actually build up LA instead of letting it wash in to the gulf
Posted by crazyLSUstudent
391 miles away from Tiger Stadium
Member since Mar 2012
6206 posts
Posted on 12/12/17 at 4:44 pm to
It is alleged that if the Mississippi was able to overpower the old river control structure there would be no fix capable of reversing that
Posted by Bigfishchoupique
Member since Jul 2017
9679 posts
Posted on 12/12/17 at 4:56 pm to
Sorry I don’t know how to post links. But if you look at Wikipedia Old River Control Struture. Very informative. There is a link to a story by Jeff Masters that tells a lot. The almost failure was in the 1973 flood. I remember it. All the marsh was flooded and the sac a lait were on fire. If the river goes to the Atchafalaya it won’t be able to be brought back. I cross those structures often. You can see the grade to the Atchafalaya. The river filling up with sediment and changing course is called avulsion. Been going on since the beginning of time.
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
41703 posts
Posted on 12/12/17 at 4:59 pm to
quote:

for large ships?

there is a bridge in the way


No... in order to prevent the issues the article talks about. I'm just saying... since the dredges are in the river already they can do the same work for a different purpose.
Posted by Bigfishchoupique
Member since Jul 2017
9679 posts
Posted on 12/12/17 at 5:00 pm to
I can’t find the link but the Corps used to have a huge hopper dredge tied up at
Audubon. It had a Congressional mandate pushed through by the dredging lobby that it could only work maybe 20 per cent of the year. We paid to have it stacked to not interfere with private dredging profits.
This post was edited on 12/12/17 at 5:02 pm
Posted by Wishnitwas1998
where TN, MS, and AL meet
Member since Oct 2010
64569 posts
Posted on 12/12/17 at 5:08 pm to
quote:

Posted by KamaCausey_LSU on 12/12/17 at 2:36 pm to LSUFanHouston That would be an very "Louisiana" thing to happen. State spends billions on diversions and coastal restoration. Then the river changes paths making it all essentially worthless.


WELL, now that you mention it you should know that the path of the River has changed numerous times over thousands of years and most scientists will tell you that the river IS going to change paths down the Other river at SOME POINT it's just a matter of when

We can fight Mother Nature and delay that from happening for a period of time but at some point it will happen. Could be 500 years, could be 5,000 but it's going to happen
Posted by White Roach
Member since Apr 2009
9666 posts
Posted on 12/12/17 at 5:19 pm to
quote:

The old bridge in br is too low for ships to pass under. Done purposefully by Huey long. No ships go past br


Which is why I wrote that perhaps a deep water channel could be dredged under the auspices of flood control.

The article pertained to the rising river bottom and the catastrophic effects it could cause in a mega-flood. Xu's dredging suggestion was in relation to reducing flood risk, not improving shipping.
Posted by MrLSU
Yellowstone, Val d'isere
Member since Jan 2004
30083 posts
Posted on 12/12/17 at 5:22 pm to
The Corps of Engineers is too incompetent to actually fix something.
Posted by MrLSU
Yellowstone, Val d'isere
Member since Jan 2004
30083 posts
Posted on 12/12/17 at 5:24 pm to
quote:

no its time to divert to the basin and actually build up LA instead of letting it wash in to the gulf
Posted by White Roach
Member since Apr 2009
9666 posts
Posted on 12/12/17 at 5:26 pm to
quote:

The Corps of Engineers is too incompetent to actually fix something.


You better hope you're wrong, because they've spent a retarded amount of money around New Orleans since Katrina.
Posted by Bestbank Tiger
Premium Member
Member since Jan 2005
82475 posts
Posted on 12/12/17 at 6:42 pm to
quote:

Al Franken did this.


He is Jewish, you know....



Posted by jimbeam
University of LSU
Member since Oct 2011
75703 posts
Posted on 12/12/17 at 6:56 pm to
quote:

Just dredge it now, and dredge it on a regular basis.
They do. The USACE dredges nonstop essentially.

I do this kind of work for a living. The cost of dredging is astronomical. Hence, why so many people are pushing for sediment diversions.

Some of the dredge spoil gets used for beneficial use. Some gets dumped offshore or in banks in the river. USACE is obligated to get rid of the spoil as cheaply as possible. So unless they get additional funding for beneficial use from other entities, it goes to the cheapest available pump out location.

The problem of coastal restoration, which is really a bad word because full restoration is nearly impossible, is extremely complex and moreso, expensive. The research in this field is relatively new, which is why you see all these studies. An understanding is very quickly being gained though, a lot of the models are damn accurate. Still, EXTREMELY dynamic system that will remain a challenge to replenish/restore/save.
Posted by Tarps99
Lafourche Parish
Member since Apr 2017
13434 posts
Posted on 12/12/17 at 8:50 pm to
quote:

Am I missing something here that makes this more complex than it seems?


You and I are in the same boat. I think some of these coastal restoration “scientists” are pulling from the same global warming alarmist/“scientists” playbook. If one line of bull doesn’t work one day study it again and come up with something new while still sucking on the government teet.

If there is too much sediment then why do some say that the Mississippi River is only delivering a fraction of the sediment load of years past.

It is the same with studies about food. One day salt is bad, then a few years later, oh wait salt has some health benefits.

It is no question the levees are a part of the problem, but there is no solution with out progress.

We can study all we want, but in some ways Mother Nature has her own plan and life finds away.
Posted by BUGAtGOAT
Munroe
Member since Oct 2015
1910 posts
Posted on 12/12/17 at 9:02 pm to
USACE and the CPRA are releasing for bid a sediment diversion/relocation project coming up soon.

They are just finishing up the PCCP pump stations project in NOLA and now all the funds are supposed to go towards this 2-3Billion dollar job. It’s going to be a design build but I think they are basically going to build massive canals to divert sediment where they want.

They aren’t as incompetent as pre-Katrina. That was quite the wake up call.
This post was edited on 12/12/17 at 9:03 pm
Posted by jimbeam
University of LSU
Member since Oct 2011
75703 posts
Posted on 12/12/17 at 9:12 pm to
quote:

If there is too much sediment then why do some say that the Mississippi River is only delivering a fraction of the sediment load of years past.


Because we didn't have deep draft ships that needed 50 feet of water to float. The sediment load is roughly 1/2 of what it could be because of dams upstream mainly.

Which is one of the drawbacks of sediment diversions. Diversions will build land more cheaply, longer, more of it. IT will however take longer, and to maintain the ship channel in the River will take more dredging unless the diversions are only opened during high flow events, when a lot of land is created anyway.

Like I said, it's not a simple problem. There are some VERY intelligent people working in this field. The coastal environment is extremely dynamic.

And to make it worse, there will be losers along with the winners.
This post was edited on 12/12/17 at 9:15 pm
Posted by White Roach
Member since Apr 2009
9666 posts
Posted on 12/12/17 at 9:26 pm to
quote:

If there is too much sediment then why do some say that the Mississippi River is only delivering a fraction of the sediment load of years past.


These aren't mutually exclusive events.

Sediment continually accumulates in the river bed, gradually raising the river bottom over time. If no dredging takes place, channels silt in and sand bars form. If the sediment buildup isn't removed (by dredging or some other means) you'll eventually have to raise the levees to accommodate the flow during high water periods.

Dams and control structures slow or stop the river flow and sediment settles out of the water column. When water is released to lower reservoir levels it doesn't have the same sediment load it would have carried if never obstructed. That doesn't mean no sediment travels downstream, just that less sediment is coming downstream. Obviously, as explained in the OP's link and illustrated by all of the ongoing dredging, plenty of sediment is still making its way downstream.

ETA: Yeah! What JimBeam said!
This post was edited on 12/12/17 at 9:29 pm
Posted by The Baker
This is fine.
Member since Dec 2011
20760 posts
Posted on 12/12/17 at 9:37 pm to
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/10/21 at 6:10 pm
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