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Started By
Message
re: There's too much dirt in the Mississippi River
Posted on 12/12/17 at 3:11 pm to LSUFanHouston
Posted on 12/12/17 at 3:11 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
LINK
Essentially... the river bottom just south of the control structure has risen dramatically due to sediment deposits.
This would seem to have a very simple solution: Just dredge it now, and dredge it on a regular basis. The Corps dredges the river south of NOLA all the time in order to maintain the shipping channel.
Am I missing something here that makes this more complex than it seems?
Money, honey. Nobody is dredging for free, and I can assure you that nobody is granting right of ways or building Charlie Chan's ginormous sediment pipeline for free. I like the dynamite idea, if for no other reasons than YouTube videos and the flying fish and the potential for catastrophe.
I believe the USACE has a mandate to maintain navigable channels for commercial shipping. I know they also do some recreational channel clearing, but that's a tiny piece of the pie. Perhaps dredging a deep water channel to Vicksburg can be authorized under the auspices of flood control, I'm not sure.
The river bottom has been rising since the levees were built.
3
Posted on 12/12/17 at 3:15 pm to msu202020
As far as natural resources go, everything would be phenomenal. The farming would be great, the hunting would be great, the fishing would be great, etc etc
There would just be far fewer people, far less industry, and far less money. None of which I am exactly opposed to. I wouldn’t have to move for the spring floods I don’t think, but I’d have to move to be able to pay off my mortgage.
If I owned my house, I could make a living on the land
There would just be far fewer people, far less industry, and far less money. None of which I am exactly opposed to. I wouldn’t have to move for the spring floods I don’t think, but I’d have to move to be able to pay off my mortgage.
If I owned my house, I could make a living on the land
Posted on 12/12/17 at 3:16 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
I'm pretty sure most of the silt comes from the Missouri river.
FIFY
Posted on 12/12/17 at 3:17 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
quote: Just let the river go where it wants to go... easiest solution.
I think there is too much public and industry money invested in the river to let this happen.
If the ORCS failed and the Mississippi washed away Morgan City, it isn't like the river would dry up between BR and the GOM. They could maintain a channel. The problem would be salt water screwing with every plant using river water in the area, as well as some that rely on groundwater. Every city drawing from the river for minicipal water would have to have desalinization plants.
It will never happen. Way too much money at stake, public and private.
Posted on 12/12/17 at 3:19 pm to LSUFanHouston
I used to work at the Hydroelectric Power plant next to the ORCS...
The silt would build up and they would open the control structure and blow it out every so often. It’s been 20 years since I was there but I believe the don’t like to open the structures because they were damaged years ago by water gouging underneath the structure.
Anyway.. it is completely manageable and the Corps monitors this every single day. The river “wants” to take the short cut to the Gulf via the Atchafalaya but it is monitored very closely. Even if it did change course, they would break the bank fixing it.
The silt would build up and they would open the control structure and blow it out every so often. It’s been 20 years since I was there but I believe the don’t like to open the structures because they were damaged years ago by water gouging underneath the structure.
Anyway.. it is completely manageable and the Corps monitors this every single day. The river “wants” to take the short cut to the Gulf via the Atchafalaya but it is monitored very closely. Even if it did change course, they would break the bank fixing it.
Posted on 12/12/17 at 3:19 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
quote: I'm pretty sure most of the silt comes from the Missouri river. FIFY
But aren't sediment loads way down from historical levels because of dams on the Missouri River system?
Posted on 12/12/17 at 3:20 pm to White Roach
Same thing contributed to the Red River flood two years ago. They way overestimated the amount of water the river could carry.
Posted on 12/12/17 at 3:24 pm to White Roach
quote:
But aren't sediment loads way down from historical levels because of dams on the Missouri River system?
Probably so but it still carries a lot of sediment. The Mississippi runs clear above the confluence with the Missouri.
Posted on 12/12/17 at 3:25 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
Right... this issue is north of BR... so seems they can just run the dredges further upriver.
for large ships?
there is a bridge in the way
Posted on 12/12/17 at 3:25 pm to slackster
quote:
think they'll lose control of the river in the next century or so.
Would have been much sooner if les miles was still around
Posted on 12/12/17 at 3:31 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:is more expensive than
1) Collect dirt
2) Deposit dirt onto barges / into tankers
3) Float barges / tankers downstream
4) Build transfer station for dirt to leave barge/tanker and into pipeline
5) Pipeline sends dirt to final destination
quote:
Just depositing back into the water column.
This post was edited on 12/12/17 at 3:31 pm
Posted on 12/12/17 at 3:40 pm to CarRamrod
quote:
The Corp is basically against someone paying for the extra pump/pipe to deposit to a different area then what the Corp has permits for. So the deposits get dredged to one location then you have to dredge from there to the location you want. When it would have been cheaper to just reroute the first dredges pipe.
You sir, are mistaken.
USACE NOD BUMP
Posted on 12/12/17 at 3:41 pm to CarRamrod
Honestly, if anyone in Louisiana had a modicum of foresight back in the '30s and '40s, a system to disperse the spoil from dredging would have been designed and implemented back then. If it had, places like Plaquemines Parish wouldn't be underwater today.
Is it inconceivable that a series of spoil pipelines could have been built over, or through, the levees every how ever many miles down the river? Maybe some private land would have been lost to eminent domain, but on the whole, landowners would have benefited and the coastline wouldn't be as eroded as it is today.
Is it inconceivable that a series of spoil pipelines could have been built over, or through, the levees every how ever many miles down the river? Maybe some private land would have been lost to eminent domain, but on the whole, landowners would have benefited and the coastline wouldn't be as eroded as it is today.
Posted on 12/12/17 at 3:46 pm to Sid in Lakeshore
Interesting link. I would have never guessed that 42% of dredged material was used for restoration projects.
Posted on 12/12/17 at 3:51 pm to slackster
quote:
I think they'll lose control of the river in the next century or so.
They almost did.... I think it was in the eighties.
The low sill structure almost failed. 90 scour hole in front and one of 150' long 40' high concrete retaining wall collapsed. Everybody had very tight sphincters.
ORCS Brochure
Posted on 12/12/17 at 3:53 pm to White Roach
quote:
White Roach
If you hunt or fish by the mouth of the river, you can see many areas where they have built up land. They coordinate with the State of Louisiana through the Coastal Wetlands Program for them to cover some of the costs where they deem it most feasible. Interesting stuff.
Posted on 12/12/17 at 3:55 pm to terriblegreen
quote:
Anyway.. it is completely manageable and the Corps monitors this every single day. The river “wants” to take the short cut to the Gulf via the Atchafalaya but it is monitored very closely. Even if it did change course, they would break the bank fixing
Yeah. They had an "incident" during the early eighties and that is why there is an auxillary structure now. To allow more flow into the Atchafalaya, but reduce flow velocity over the low sill structure.
Posted on 12/12/17 at 3:59 pm to White Roach
Ive always wondered why there arent more spoil islands. I grew up on Galveston Bay and some of the best fishing was off the spoils. They run those boats damn near year long. Are they really just dredging it up off the river and throwing it off the back of the barge?
Posted on 12/12/17 at 4:02 pm to SeabrookTiger
they drop the dredged sediment into the channel and let the current take it downriver from what i have seen
Posted on 12/12/17 at 4:18 pm to Sid in Lakeshore
quote:
quote:
I think they'll lose control of the river in the next century or so.
They almost did.... I think it was in the eighties.
The low sill structure almost failed. 90 scour hole in front and one of 150' long 40' high concrete retaining wall collapsed. Everybody had very tight sphincters.
Fixed. For now anyway. One thing I wonder about if the river did move to the Atchafalaya is the Waterford Nuclear power Plant in St Charles parish. It relies on the Miss River for its cooling. Hope they have that contingency in their disaster plan.
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