re: The Ultimate Civil War Debate: Ulysses S. Grant or Robert E. Lee?

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Melt, year 150

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152.

If you're going to hold Pickett's charge against Lee, then you have to hold the Union attack at Cold Harbor against Grant. To me, Grant's attack was far more unjustifiable. After the battle lines were drawn on the first day of Gettysburg, Lee attempted to fight the remainder of the battle straight out of the Napoleonic playbook: open with attacks on your opponent's wings to draw away his reserves, then finish him with an all-out attack on his center that breaks his army. It didn't work, but it was an understandable plan. Grant, on the other hand, elected to open Cold Harbor with an attack straight into a heavily prepared position, against the advice of his subordinate field commanders. It was a grievous error, and to his credit, he admitted as much in his memoirs.

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Grant wasn't even Lincoln's first choice to lead Union military... He was his 4th

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Ever hear of seniority? Grant started the war as a captain in the U.S. Army. Winfield Scott began the war as General-in-Chief of all Union forces but was forced to vacate that title and hand it over to McClellan - who re-joined the army in 1861 as a brigadier general. Halleck was Grant's superior in the Western Theater when he was promoted to the position of General-in-Chief.

Also...Grant had to prove himself. After his narrow victory at the Battle of Shiloh he was seen by many as damaged goods. It wasn't until his victories at Vicksburg and Chattanooga that Lincoln was sure Grant was the right man for the job. And he was so confident in Grant's ability to get the job done that he asked Congress to promote him to Lieutenant General - a rank which hadn't been held since George Washington in the Revolutionary War.

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Sherman was an American hero.

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Sherman was a coward and a piece of shite.

He's burning in fires like the ones he set.

frick him.

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William T. Sherman. Keeping America United and free from oppression one bullet at a time. tGOAT rebel slayer.


He was a piece of shite and a terrorist. If I ever find his grave, I'm shitting on it. One of the worst Americans in history.

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self righteous southerner gonna get angry because war is hell ...

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To me, Grant's attack was far more unjustifiable.

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How so? Lee was outnumbered at Gettysburg and had spent the previous day making unsuccessful attacks against the flanks of Meade's line. He figured Meade for a fool and wagered his center was lightly defended. Meade, however, correctly guessed that if there was to be another Confederate attack, that attack would come on his center. So Union reserves began to shift from the flanks to the center on the morning of July 3.

It must also be noted that Lee made the attack against the advice of his subordinate commanders, just like Grant at Cold Harbor. Except Grant at Cold Harbor had a more valid excuse to assault Lee's entrenchments - he had the superior force. And for the last four weeks had had been constantly engaged with Lee's army in brutal combat. He figured that Lee's shrunken force was too exhausted and ill-equipped to withstand an attack against the balance of his force. It was a calculated risk that failed, but a calculated risk that made more sense than Lee's July 3 assault at Gettysburg.

If Grant's assault had succeeded the war would have likely been over in a matter of days. If Lee's assault had succeeded at Gettysburg, he likely would have ended up having to fall back to Virginia because he would have lacked the numbers to exploit the victory.

I'm not saying Lee's decision at Gettysburg was a good one. I'm merely saying that he had at least tried to set up his attack on the center in classic Napoleonic fashion. Grant chose to attack a heavily prepared position at Cold Harbor in the most clumsy way possible. He obviously thought the potential ends justified the very egregious means, but I don't think that decision is very defensible in retrospect, and neither did he, for that matter.

Lee, the nation's all-time leading general in terms of casualties of his own troops (incredible when he was primarily playing defense, or he should have been) botched Gettysburg and consistently took vital resources from the western front. His attempted invasion into Maryland was a disaster. Both of these were his ideas....both disasters.
Grant won battle after battle in Confederate territory playing offense.

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Sherman was a coward and a piece of shite.

He's burning in fires like the ones he set.

frick him.

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Nah. He's in Valhalla with other righteous warriors, telling tales of laying waste to your traitorous ancestors.

Lee did more with less.