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Started By
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re: The Ultimate Civil War Debate: Ulysses S. Grant or Robert E. Lee?
Posted on 4/23/17 at 5:26 pm to TigerTalker16
Posted on 4/23/17 at 5:26 pm to TigerTalker16
quote:
William T. Sherman. Keeping America United and free from oppression one bullet at a time. tGOAT rebel slayer.
He was a piece of shite and a terrorist. If I ever find his grave, I'm shitting on it. One of the worst Americans in history.
4
Posted on 4/23/17 at 5:26 pm to RollTide1987
Grant finally beat Lee because he realized what his predecessors had not: which side won the individual battles did not really matter. As long as the Army of the Potomac was not completely destroyed, sheer weight of numbers would eventually tell. The Overland campaign started off in a manner similar to all the other Union offensives against Lee. Grant moved south, but Lee struck first and narrowly defeated him in the Wilderness, despite being outnumbered more than 2-to-1. Grant's major shift in strategy was simply not retreating after the battle. Instead, he repeatedly tried to move around Lee's right flank. Lee blocked him at every attempt, and every resulting battle was either a bloody draw (Spotsylvania Court House) or a bloody Southern victory (Cold Harbor). It did not matter. Lee did not possess the strength to smash Grant, which is what it would have taken to stop his advance.
Plus, there is also the fact that Meade was actually in command of the Army of the Potomac. Grant was on scene in his capacity as commander of all Union armies. Meade doesn't get the credit he deserves for the part he played.
Grant was a very capable and effective commander. Lee was a legitimate genius.
Plus, there is also the fact that Meade was actually in command of the Army of the Potomac. Grant was on scene in his capacity as commander of all Union armies. Meade doesn't get the credit he deserves for the part he played.
Grant was a very capable and effective commander. Lee was a legitimate genius.
This post was edited on 4/23/17 at 5:46 pm
Posted on 4/23/17 at 5:29 pm to RollTide1987
Grant was a butcher. Lee was a genius.
/thread
/thread
Posted on 4/23/17 at 5:40 pm to RollTide1987
Grant's statues stay up longer on average.
Grant wins.
Grant wins.
Posted on 4/23/17 at 5:41 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
He was a piece of shite and a terrorist. If I ever find his grave, I'm shitting on it. One of the worst Americans in history.
Sherman was an American hero.
Posted on 4/23/17 at 5:45 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
The two premiere generals of the War Between the States.
Grant was the beneficiary of resources;
Lee was the beneficiary of outstanding subordinate talent.
Posted on 4/23/17 at 5:46 pm to RollTide1987
Take no fricking prisoners. /thread. 
Posted on 4/23/17 at 5:48 pm to Mo Jeaux
bullshite, he was a fricking terrorist. He could've handled that whole situation with some kind of decency. His men burned down entire cities and raped no telling how many women. frick him.
Posted on 4/23/17 at 5:50 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
Melt, year 150
Posted on 4/23/17 at 5:51 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
bullshite, he was a fricking terrorist. He could've handled that whole situation with some kind of decency. His men burned down entire cities and raped no telling how many women. frick him.
He got the job done. Just like the Japanese after Pearl Harbour, the South fricked with the wrong dude.
To Sherman
Posted on 4/23/17 at 6:07 pm to dwr353
quote:
When someone asks why you Yankees do not belong in the SEC, I can use you as an example. Thanks.
What does a college sports conference have to do with talking about an American hero?
Posted on 4/23/17 at 6:07 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
I understand the Lee worship, but I'm much more in the Grant corner...to paraphrase Shelby Steele, Grant could get into Lee's head enough to understand what he needed to do to win...
Lee ordered Pickett's Charge, which to me is unforgivable...
Lee ordered Pickett's Charge, which to me is unforgivable...
Posted on 4/23/17 at 6:12 pm to vl100butch
quote:
Shelby Steele, Grant could get into Lee's head enough to understand what he needed to do to win...
You need to read Gordon Rhea's 4 books on the Overland Campiagn, Grant was an idiot.
quote:
Lee ordered Pickett's Charge, which to me is unforgivable...
No just the charge but everything Lee did at Gettysburg was a fricking disaster.
Posted on 4/23/17 at 6:15 pm to RollTide1987
Grant by a mile.
Lee hogged resources, and made disastrous excursions in the northern states.
Lee hogged resources, and made disastrous excursions in the northern states.
Posted on 4/23/17 at 6:37 pm to RollTide1987
This isn't even a debate among those with functioning brains.
Posted on 4/23/17 at 6:47 pm to oldcharlie8
quote:
stonewall Jackson
if he doesn't die, the south wins easily. and that was said by Robert e. lee many times
Stonewall Jackson is a distant relative of mine.
Mortally wounded by his own sentry.
This post was edited on 4/23/17 at 6:50 pm
Posted on 4/23/17 at 6:59 pm to TigerTalker16
American hero? Lee and Grant, I agree. The arsonist-hell no. A painting of him with a fire background is not appreciated by most Southerns. You would not understand.
Posted on 4/23/17 at 7:01 pm to RollTide1987
I will preface this by saying as someone who has spent his entire life in the south, I am glad th Confederacy lost the war and the Union was preserved.
Grant won because he used his resources. They were human lives, but they were a resource that the south did not have. Thousands of male immigrants of fighting age were pouring off of boats in New York harbor each day; put a gun in their hands and ship them south, you have an endless stream of cannon fodder. Even if your losses are 5:1, you can replace your 5, your enemy cannot replace his 1. It's a sound, albeit callous, strategy.
Lee was likely the better tactician on the field. It's a miracle he stretched the war as long as it did. For quite a long while his army was thought to be invincible. Lee also had the advantage of a superior officer corps. Jackson, Longstreet, Hill, Hood, Early, Gordon, others were all superb at certain levels of command. Reverse the roles, and I think Lee would have ended the war very quickly at the helm of the Army of the Potomac.
Grant won because he used his resources. They were human lives, but they were a resource that the south did not have. Thousands of male immigrants of fighting age were pouring off of boats in New York harbor each day; put a gun in their hands and ship them south, you have an endless stream of cannon fodder. Even if your losses are 5:1, you can replace your 5, your enemy cannot replace his 1. It's a sound, albeit callous, strategy.
Lee was likely the better tactician on the field. It's a miracle he stretched the war as long as it did. For quite a long while his army was thought to be invincible. Lee also had the advantage of a superior officer corps. Jackson, Longstreet, Hill, Hood, Early, Gordon, others were all superb at certain levels of command. Reverse the roles, and I think Lee would have ended the war very quickly at the helm of the Army of the Potomac.
This post was edited on 4/23/17 at 7:09 pm
Posted on 4/23/17 at 7:07 pm to Lakeboy7
quote:
Grant was an idiot
Oh come on.
Posted on 4/23/17 at 7:09 pm to nevilletiger79
quote:
Grant wasn't even Lincoln's first choice to lead Union military... He was his 4th
Winfield Scott, George B. McClellan, Henry Halleck, Ulysses S. Grant
That could just as easily be seen as a flaw in Lincoln's judgement as an indictment of Grant.
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