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re: The stupidity of World War I
Posted on 8/7/15 at 12:19 pm to AubieALUMdvm
Posted on 8/7/15 at 12:19 pm to AubieALUMdvm
quote:
In that scenario do we even get to the point where we have to drop nukes with double the American effort in the pacific? Thanks a lot Brits, because of you we had to drop nukes.
Lots of what if but whose to say the US would've developed nukes first or at all. If Germany would've won the WW I would they have been the first country to develop nuclear weapons? Would the impetus have been there to do so?
1
Posted on 8/7/15 at 12:19 pm to CadesCove
quote:
The Communists likely would have eventually taken over all of Europe had there not been a WWI. It's not like they were a new group before the war.
Well you're right that the communists were not new. And even before WWI, Socialism was growing in popularity, especially in France & Germany. I still don't think they'd have been able to overthrow any of the major European powers without those powers first being severely weakened through what was seen in WWI.
Posted on 8/7/15 at 12:25 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
Lots of what if but whose to say the US would've developed nukes first or at all. If Germany would've won the WW I would they have been the first country to develop nuclear weapons? Would the impetus have been there to do so?
Think about this. Albert Einstein got the ball rolling on the A-Bomb. He was a German who only left Germany when the Nazis took over. If Germany had not lost WWI, there would have never been a Nazi Party thus Albert Einstein, and a ton of other brilliant scientists would have probably never left Germany. I'm not sure anyone would have tried to develop a A-Bomb without there being a possibility of a WWII, but if anyone would have done it, the Germans would have had a huge advantage.
Posted on 8/7/15 at 12:26 pm to Champagne
quote:
However, I think that you would agree that the UK WOULD pursue its own best interests in all circumstances, with no regard for any sentimental fondness for the USA, which the UK would abandon when dictated by the best interests of the UK.
No doubt. I think the current relationship was forged by the bond of fighting Nazi Germany together, then shouldering a lot of the burden during the Cold War following.
Posted on 8/7/15 at 12:32 pm to Ace Midnight
Any book sugestions that accurately tell what led up to the start of the war? Everything that I have found the reviews suggest that the authors are bias. Looking for something that covers the politics leading up to the start, the battles in between, and covers the end and the aftermath and reprocutions. Tia
Posted on 8/7/15 at 12:35 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
but if anyone would have done it, the Germans would have had a huge advantage.
Except Italy, perhaps. Since they had Fermi - you know, the guy who actually invented atomic power (or, at least the Russians who stole his work did) and, for all practical purposes, is THE guy who invented the atomic bomb (if we can point to 1 guy).
Einstein's theoretical work aside, Klaproth and Rontgen (both German) laid much of the ground work for atomic energy. The Curies are important as well. Englishman James Chadwick discovered the neutron. Hahn and Strassman discovered fission, it's true, but Fermi is the guy who put it all together.
And he would have been in Italy, not the U.S. if it were not for Mussolini.
Posted on 8/7/15 at 12:42 pm to Darth_Vader
Is there any notion of Stalin having designs on Europe prior to Hitler attacking Russia?
Posted on 8/7/15 at 12:44 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Except Italy, perhaps. Since they had Fermi - you know, the guy who actually invented atomic power (or, at least the Russians who stole his work did) and, for all practical purposes, is THE guy who invented the atomic bomb (if we can point to 1 guy).
Einstein's theoretical work aside, Klaproth and Rontgen (both German) laid much of the ground work for atomic energy. The Curies are important as well. Englishman James Chadwick discovered the neutron. Hahn and Strassman discovered fission, it's true, but Fermi is the guy who put it all together.
And he would have been in Italy, not the U.S. if it were not for Mussolini.
Good point. And keep in mind that without WWI, Mussolini would never have been more than a Journalist. Even with Fermi, I don't see Italy ever trying or even being able to start up a atom project that would be needed to build a bomb. It takes a massive industrial and scientific foundation which Italy just did not possess. Germany on the other hand was a world leader in both regards.
Posted on 8/7/15 at 12:45 pm to RollTide1987
well, that's what you think. sure it was stupid.
but WWI happened, because there was a plan to do so....no other reason.
just a plan to do so.
sorry you never got the memo.
but WWI happened, because there was a plan to do so....no other reason.
just a plan to do so.
sorry you never got the memo.
Posted on 8/7/15 at 12:51 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
Is there any notion of Stalin having designs on Europe prior to Hitler attacking Russia?
Very much so. Before the Germans invaded the USSR in June 1941, the Soviets had already invaded Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Poland.
Also, while the Germans were building up their forces in the East getting ready to launch Operation Barbarossa, the Soviets likewise were building up their forces on their side of the border as well. There's been claims and speculations for years that had Hitler not attacked the Soviets when he did, Stalin was preparing to beat him to the punch.
Posted on 8/7/15 at 1:03 pm to Darth_Vader
Does this mean I can't blame the brits anymore?
Posted on 8/7/15 at 1:10 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
. There's been claims and speculations for years that had Hitler not attacked the Soviets when he did, Stalin was preparing to beat him to the punch.
The Red Army was in the process of developing 10 Airborne divisions at the time of Barbarossa - now, most of those cats got converted to leg infantry (I think they kept something under 2 divisions as airborne) - and just chewed up in the early rough months of the war for them - but, that fact alone suggests Stalin had designs on parts of Europe - I mean, you don't need Airborne divisions to hold ground, certainly not 10.
This post was edited on 8/7/15 at 1:11 pm
Posted on 8/7/15 at 1:23 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
The Red Army was in the process of developing 10 Airborne divisions at the time of Barbarossa - now, most of those cats got converted to leg infantry (I think they kept something under 2 divisions as airborne) - and just chewed up in the early rough months of the war for them - but, that fact alone suggests Stalin had designs on parts of Europe - I mean, you don't need Airborne divisions to hold ground, certainly not 10.
The Soviets were actually the early pioneers of Airborne warfare in the 30's.
They even had early attempts air airborne tank formations.
Posted on 8/7/15 at 1:23 pm to LSUfan20005
quote:
several national leaders were also cousins
truth, and very odd. queen victoria squirted out a bunch of european-style inbreed hillbillies
Posted on 8/7/15 at 1:31 pm to mack the knife
quote:
truth, and very odd. queen victoria squirted out a bunch of european-style inbreed hillbillies
Hell, King George V of GB and Czar Nicholas II of Russia could have just about passed for twin brothers....
Posted on 8/7/15 at 1:41 pm to RollTide1987
The hubris of "The Unsinkable Titanic" generation.
Posted on 8/7/15 at 2:10 pm to Darth_Vader
So Poland was occupied by the Soviet Union when Germany invaded and it split per the non aggression pact?
Posted on 8/7/15 at 2:13 pm to Ace Midnight
I do want to again emphasize that I cannot fathom a situation in which the US/UK best interests would diverge to the point of hostility.
Even during the height of The Troubles in Northern Ireland, US/UK relations were as solid as iron, despite the fact that some funding for the Provisional IRA did in fact come from private US citizens from the Northeast USA. This is grounds for Tommy and the Bobbies to be supremely pissed off at Americans, but, they never took that attitude.
Hats off to those very jolly good fellows. Pip-pip, cheerio, good show and all that, chaps.
Even during the height of The Troubles in Northern Ireland, US/UK relations were as solid as iron, despite the fact that some funding for the Provisional IRA did in fact come from private US citizens from the Northeast USA. This is grounds for Tommy and the Bobbies to be supremely pissed off at Americans, but, they never took that attitude.
Hats off to those very jolly good fellows. Pip-pip, cheerio, good show and all that, chaps.
This post was edited on 8/7/15 at 2:14 pm
Posted on 8/7/15 at 2:15 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
So Poland was occupied by the Soviet Union when Germany invaded and it split per the non aggression pact?
Just the Eastern sliver of Poland, per the agreement. The agreement was Stalin giving Hitler the green light to invade, which he did on September 1st. On September 17th, the Soviet Union launched its own invasion of Poland, seizing, among other areas, the key Port of Karelia.
Recall that the Soviets held very few warm water ports on the European side of their empire prior to WWII.
Posted on 8/7/15 at 2:19 pm to Champagne
If WW1 doesn't happen, or is won quickly by Germany, then WW2 doesn't happen. I can safely say this, if Archduke Ferdinand is not assassinated none of us would exist. It set things in motion that caused people to either perish or be in different places at different times. Chances are your grandparents don't meet, which means your parents don't exist, which means your parents never met and got it on at the exact moment in time that you were conceived.
This post was edited on 8/7/15 at 2:20 pm
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