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Started By
Message
re: The "Bystander Effect" is getting us killed.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:13 pm to Nativebullet
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:13 pm to Nativebullet
quote:
have our survival skills kick in
America doesn't have any survival skills, beaten out of us by political correctness.
Not that it would have made much of a difference in this situation.
0
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:14 pm to Tigers_Saints
quote:
Mateen shot some of his initial victims at the Orlando club before taking the rest hostage. He barricaded himself in a toilet with around four or five hostages and called 911 twice. Both times he hung up on the dispatcher. The dispatcher made one call back to Mateen.
From your link.
The guy has a point. No need to be an arse hole.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:18 pm to rmnldr
quote:
Sweet investigative work you're doing there. Going to look up my address next?
Nah Rambo, but it wouldn't be hard to find
quote:
Point his rifle down and subdue him.
Just that easy
quote:
Probably when gunfire was heard.
Have you watched the videos yet?
quote:
don't drink.
Got to be situationally aware at all times. Ready to act....
quote:
This is the only argument against someone trying to intervene and it assumes that there is some large stampede of people that cannot be traversed.
Well we already know people are going to react....
and it could also mean some madman created a gap between himself and potential targets by, idk, shooting them.
quote:
Same for you, bud.
Have you ever talked to first responders about what to do in disaster situations such as an active shooter? How much experience do you have in planning for such events? And a workplace environment is much easier to plan for than a nightclub.
I'm assuming you're still a student.
You've convinced me. Who knew batman was posting here.
Goodnight, have to prepare for my journey to the League of Shadows tomorrow morning.
This post was edited on 6/13/16 at 10:21 pm
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:20 pm to Tigers_Saints
Tigers saints you are an arse hole of the largest degree. Give the dude a break man with your holier than thou bullshite. He's entitled to his opinion and in no way blamed the victims in this tragedy. You only twist his words.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:22 pm to NLabosstiger
quote:
and in no way blamed the victims in this tragedy.
Well except when he actually did.
quote:
the simple fact is that if someone or a group of people would have rushed the gunman, not as many people would have been killed or injured.
How is that not putting some blame on the victims for not acting?
Please, do tell
quote:
He's entitled to his opinion
Sure, and I'm entitled to call him a dipshit Rambo wannabe for it.
This post was edited on 6/13/16 at 10:28 pm
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:25 pm to NLabosstiger
You are not entitled to an opinion. Why do people always say this when they are just completely wrong?
I will never in a million years understand why people talk out of their arse about things they have no clue about and then say "but I have a right to have my opinion heard!"
I will never in a million years understand why people talk out of their arse about things they have no clue about and then say "but I have a right to have my opinion heard!"
This post was edited on 6/13/16 at 10:27 pm
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:27 pm to Tigers_Saints
quote:
Just that easy
It's actually fairly easy to point a rifle down and then subdue someone. Any man worth a shite should be able to at least tackle another man. It's not that hard. Making the decision to do so would be, but not the act itself.
quote:
Have you watched the videos yet?
Yes. Gunfire has a very distinct sound. Live gunfire sounds nothing like anything a dance club would have playing.
quote:
Got to be situationally aware at all times. Ready to act....
Situationally aware for sure.
quote:
Well we already know people are going to react.... and it could also mean some madman created a gap between himself and potential targets by, idk, shooting them.
Every situation is different. And shooting someone doesn't make them fly into another dimension dude. And a gun can only point one way.
quote:
Have you ever talked to first responders about what to do in disaster situations such as an active shooter? How much experience do you have in planning for such events? And a workplace environment is much easier to plan for than a nightclub.
The Orlando police department was trained to rush in and shoot before backup arrives. Rush tactics.
You don't plan for mass shootings typically but it would be nice if everyone was aware of their surroundings and knew to fight back when given the opportunity.
quote:
You've convinced me. Who knew batman was posting here.
You're miserable.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:29 pm to Tigers_Saints
quote:
How is that not putting some blame on the victims for not acting?
An IF and THEN statement is not blaming.
IF a group of people rushed a gunman in a mass shooting and disarmed them THEN not as many people could potentially be hurt or killed.
I did not use specifics.
I did not use an example of the Orlando massacre.
I did not state names.
I did not say anything that specifically blamed a victim for their lack of reported action.
If you could stop accusing me of things I haven't done that would be nice.
This is simply a suggestion. And my original post on PAGE 1 did that:
quote:
What's amazing to me is that in these mass shooting situations no one ever attacks the shooter.
There aren't many recorded cases of people attacking the gunman. This is a fact.
quote:
We need to get over this hide and die mentality.
Often people simply attempt to hide from a gunman and get killed in the process. I am suggesting that people in that situation could attempt to fight back in order to save their lives and others' lives.
quote:
Most of the time these wackjobs are using long rifles in close quarters so it'd be very easy to disarm them.
Disarming someone with a rifle is easier than with other weapons. This is a fact.
Not all cases can be easily simplified like this but it is a simple suggestion and an idea as to how to lessen the impact of a gunman in a massacre situation.
This post was edited on 6/13/16 at 10:34 pm
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:33 pm to rmnldr
quote:
t's actually fairly easy to point a rifle down and then subdue someone. Any man worth a shite should be able to at least tackle another man. It's not that hard. Making the decision to do so would be, but not the act itself.
How many times have you done it to an active shooter trying to kill you?
quote:
Yes. Gunfire has a very distinct sound. Live gunfire sounds nothing like anything a dance club would have playing.
I'm going to take the video and eye witness accounts over yours
quote:
Situationally aware for sure.
Yep, another mistake the victims made, right?
Should have been situationally aware in a night club while dancing....
quote:
And shooting someone doesn't make them fly into another dimension dude.
Would love for you to expand on this.
Are you suggesting you can't clear an area with gunfire?
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:38 pm to rmnldr
quote:
did not use specifics.
I did not use an example of the Orlando massacre.
Really? This wasn't about Orlando?
quote:
If more people were aware of the type of action I described, maybe there wouldn't be 49 people dead in that club.
I haven't put any words in your mouth. I've quoted you repeatedly. If only you would have been there....
Keep on digging Rambo
This post was edited on 6/13/16 at 10:39 pm
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:39 pm to Tigers_Saints
quote:
How many times have you done it to an active shooter trying to kill you?
The human body has no bounds in the face of death. For you to even question this and suggest that it is impossible for someone to disarm someone is a joke.
Just because I haven't been in that situation doesn't mean I can't suggest knocking someone over or grabbing their weapon.
quote:
I'm going to take the video and eye witness accounts over yours
You told me to watch the video.
I watched the video.
Loud gunfire is audible and easily identifiable.
Now you're saying that it wasn't. Okay.
quote:
Yep, another mistake the victims made, right?
Should have been situationally aware in a night club while dancing....
Considering all of the shite that can happen in a nightclub, I think everyone should always be situationally aware. For you to act like this isn't something we should do is also a joke.
quote:
Would love for you to expand on this.
Are you suggesting you can't clear an area with gunfire?
You specifically said:
"and it could also mean some madman created a gap between himself and potential targets by, idk, shooting them."
If the gunman is shooting at people, he won't stop until they've dropped most likely. That means that his back could be turned. Because his back is turned, it leaves him open to an attack from someone. Not hard dude.
quote:
Really? This wasn't about Orlando?
Did I say anything about Orlando in my OP? No.
quote:
I haven't put any words in your mouth. I've quoted you repeatedly. If only you would have been there....
You made it about Orlando.
And not sure if you're wishing I was dead or if I would have acted to stop the shooting.
Hopefully you're wishing the latter. Maybe one day I'll be able to stop such an event from happening. Hopefully it never does happen.
This post was edited on 6/13/16 at 10:42 pm
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:41 pm to Tigers_Saints
From the video, it didn't seem to me like any of them had heard a gunshot IRL before that night
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:42 pm to Hammertime
quote:
From the video, it didn't seem to me like any of them had heard a gunshot IRL before that night
Which is very scary. We need to educate people on these types of things.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:47 pm to rmnldr
quote:
The human body has no bounds in the face of death. For you to even question this and suggest that it is impossible for someone to disarm someone is a joke.
Can you read? I haven't said it is impossible, but it certainly isn't fricking easy.
You do realize that the shooter is having that same rush and facing death right?
quote:
Just because I haven't been in that situation doesn't mean I can't suggest knocking someone over or grabbing their weapon.
Before being seen by the shooter or being shot before you get near him. I'm sure he'll just let you do it too.
quote:
Loud gunfire is audible and easily identifiable.
Now you're saying that it wasn't. Okay.
quote:
Considering all of the shite that can happen in a nightclub, I think everyone should always be situationally aware. For you to act like this isn't something we should do is also a joke.
quote:
If the gunman is shooting at people, he won't stop until they've dropped most likely. That means that his back could be turned. Because his back is turned, it leaves him open to an attack from someone. Not hard dude.
So you know where he was standing while opening fire? A lot harder to get to someone over falling bodies, wouldn't you agree
But you would have read it and reacted immediately. You da man
quote:
Did I say anything about Orlando in my OP? No.
Guess you didn't say it at all if it isn't in your OP.
Can't even stand by your own words Roman. Smh
quote:
You made it about Orlando.
Come on. This entire thing is in reference to Orlando, which is specifically mentioned in the thread OP. Now you're just being pathetic (even more so)
This post was edited on 6/13/16 at 10:51 pm
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:52 pm to Tigers_Saints
quote:
Can you read? I haven't said it is impossible, but it certainly isn't fricking easy.
You do realize that the shooter is having that same rush and facing death right?
It is easy to physically do. Making the decision to is different.
quote:
Before being seen by the shooter or being shot before you get near him. I'm sure he'll just let you do it too.
Yeah because he's just twirling in place shooting everything.
quote:
So you know where he was standing while opening fire? A lot harder to get to someone over falling bodies, wouldn't you agree
But you would have read it and reacted immediately. You da man
Here you go with the sarcastic hero talk again. I'm fairly certain that guns only shoot one way. And if a person was not in the firing direction of the gun, they would therefore be able to attack the gunman with the high probability of being shot.
quote:
Come on. This entire thing is in reference to Orlando.
Yet I didn't mention it once until it was brought up and almost all of your posts in this thread have been towards me.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:56 pm to rmnldr
Eh, that's just the lives some people live. You're not gonna learn what gunfire sounds like by watching it on TV, and you can't shoot a gun so everyone in the world can hear it. On the opposite side of the spectrum, some people can pick out the gun or caliber as soon as it's shot.
FWIW, I'm not a sitter arounder in stressful or dangerous situations. Never have been, and never will be.....but I do understand that 99% of people will panic and freeze or just run when SHTF. You can't make people run towards something when their natural reaction is to immediately run away. That's just the way people are, and you can't change it. While I would run at him, I wouldn't expect a single other person to do the same
FWIW, I'm not a sitter arounder in stressful or dangerous situations. Never have been, and never will be.....but I do understand that 99% of people will panic and freeze or just run when SHTF. You can't make people run towards something when their natural reaction is to immediately run away. That's just the way people are, and you can't change it. While I would run at him, I wouldn't expect a single other person to do the same
This post was edited on 6/13/16 at 10:59 pm
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:56 pm to rmnldr
quote:
And if a person was not in the firing direction of the gun, they would therefore be able to attack the gunman with the high probability of being shot.
Well at least we can finally agree on something
By the time you instantly reacted and reached the shooter, no way could he turn.
quote:
Yeah because he's just twirling in place shooting everything.
He's shooting anyone near him....
quote:
Yet I didn't mention it once until it was brought up and almost all of your posts in this thread have been towards me.
You really need to reread this thread. And if we're playing your technical, hail Mary attempt, you brought up the Orlando situation before me with this comment, and again in the next one:
quote:
Doesn't appear so in this situation.
Derp
Posted on 6/13/16 at 11:02 pm to rmnldr
quote:
We need to get over this hide and die mentality.
Unless you have military training in attacking in the face of fear and death nobody knows what they'd do in that situation. I'd like to think I'd rush the shooter, but it's an instantaneous gut reaction from someone.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 11:03 pm to Tigers_Saints
quote:
Well at least we can finally agree on something
By the time you instantly reacted and reached the shooter, no way could he turn
Awesome sarcasm.
You missed my OP where I mentioned that most of these gunmen are using long rifles. Not easy to operate a long rifle when someone is in your grill.
quote:
He's shooting anyone near him....
Often focused on one direction.
quote:
You really need to reread this thread. And if we're playing your technical, hail Mary attempt, you brought up the Orlando situation before me with this comment, and again in the next one:
"In this situation" = mass shootings
There doesn't appear to be any recorded acts of aggression towards gunmen in these situations.
ETA: I should've said "when in this situation" to make it more clear.
This post was edited on 6/13/16 at 11:05 pm
Posted on 6/13/16 at 11:07 pm to rmnldr
quote:
"In this situation" = mass shootings
You can't be serious. It was 100% about Orlando. You know it, I know it, and anyone who can read knows it.
It doesn't make any sense in your "context". This one too?
quote:
. I guarantee you that among that crowd someone could have tackled this guy and disarmed him.
This post was edited on 6/13/16 at 11:10 pm
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