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re: The "Bystander Effect" is getting us killed.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 8:12 pm to Tigers_Saints
Posted on 6/13/16 at 8:12 pm to Tigers_Saints
quote:
You aren't blaming the victims here?
How is that blaming victims? If you think that's blaming victims then I feel sorry for your sad existence.
It's very fricking unfortunate that none or few of them had the idea implanted that in a mass-shooting incident that they can disarm a gunman.
I wouldn't expect it to be common knowledge, proven by your ignorance and arrogance to the subject. Maybe if it were taught more and more widely known, maybe we could begin to fix the problem of mass-shootings.
quote:
Yep, you would have stopped it. You're an idiot
Just stop dude. Never once did I ever bring myself into the discussion. I simply brought up a solution to a crisis situation and you somehow interpreted as someone bragging about what they would do in a situation.
You need to chill out. I'm not like that and I never said anything like that.
This post was edited on 6/13/16 at 8:14 pm
2
Posted on 6/13/16 at 8:13 pm to Tigers_Saints
quote:
Or they were killed trying
This x 10000000.
I don't get why internet tough guys always make that assumption. You have to coordinate a bum rush and that's hard to do without being noticed. Plus you're taking your bare hands to a gunfight. The gun wins 99 times out of 100.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 8:14 pm to xxKylexx
quote:
Okay but the guy can't point a gun at 300+ people at the same time. Again, I know it's incredibly different to actually be in the situation and I can completely understand why many would run and hide, but he did have to reload, he couldn't look 360 degrees at once, shite throw some bottles at him.
I have a feeling he knew his way around the joint and probably wasn't standing in the middle of the dance floor surrounded by people. He was probably posted with his back in a corner and maybe even with some sort of cover as well. He was probably up higher than them too, and in a spot where there was probably bottle neck effect of people.
I understand asking this question...but come on...50 people were killed, and many more were injured. The guy had a good plan and apparently executed it very well. I don't think we know exactly what took place but I bet that it was not a very easy situation to figure out if you were a victim.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 8:14 pm to rmnldr
quote:
How is that blaming victims?
Are you serious?
You're putting blame on the victims for 49 people dying for not taking action.
Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 8:16 pm to Tigers_Saints
quote:
Tigers_Saints
Posted on 6/13/16 at 8:16 pm to rmnldr
I love how you add a few things a few minutes after every time
Are you reading this thread?
I mean you literally blamed the victims here.
Tell me more about "your kind" of people that would have stopped it
quote:
Just stop dude. Never once did I ever bring myself into the discussion. I simply brought up a solution to a crisis situation and you somehow interpreted as someone bragging about what they would do in a situation.
quote:
You need to chill out. I'm not like that and I never said anything like that.
Are you reading this thread?
I mean you literally blamed the victims here.
Tell me more about "your kind" of people that would have stopped it
This post was edited on 6/13/16 at 8:17 pm
Posted on 6/13/16 at 8:18 pm to Tigers_Saints
The kind that assumes that they have no capability to fight against a human being with a firearm and lacks the knowledge to do such a thing. Your kind. The kind that assumes that anyone that even attempts to suggest fighting back is just a "macho tough guy" acting out his movie scene fantasies.
That's your kind.
That's your kind.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 8:20 pm to xxKylexx
As much as I'd like to believe I'd judo chop the guy and become a national hero, I'm getting the frick out of dodge if I were in a similar situation.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 8:23 pm to rmnldr
quote:
The kind that assumes that anyone that even attempts to suggest fighting back is just a "macho tough guy" acting out his movie scene fantasies.
Is that what happened in this thread?
No, you were the one who assumed that they could have magically been in the perfect position to take out the attacker, while not being confused about the situation at all, and also disarmed the attacker.
All in the chaos and in a short, basically a reactionary, period of time
I'm the one making assumptions though
quote:
That's your kind.
I'd say my kind doesn't blame the victims inside a bar for a dying in a mass shooting, nor do I have any idea what I would have done in a similar situation.
In most likelihood, by the time a person realizes what is going on, it is already too late.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 8:25 pm to Nativebullet
I'll never judge anyone for how they act when someone reacts when in that situation.
However, in the movie theatre situation it makes total sense why nobody could do anything but in a night club it seems hard to imagine there was never a time where his back wasn't to a number of people who could have had a chance to do something without basically committing suicide.
I don't know it's just terrible that this is something we have to even think about these days.
However, in the movie theatre situation it makes total sense why nobody could do anything but in a night club it seems hard to imagine there was never a time where his back wasn't to a number of people who could have had a chance to do something without basically committing suicide.
I don't know it's just terrible that this is something we have to even think about these days.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 8:27 pm to RandySavage
LINK
Here's a snapshot from when the shots were fired. It is pretty easy to see how it caught people off guard. It sounds like part of the beat
Hell, the girl in the video doesn't even react to it initially.
Watch the 2nd video, and it is crazy how fast the firing happened.
Here's a snapshot from when the shots were fired. It is pretty easy to see how it caught people off guard. It sounds like part of the beat
Hell, the girl in the video doesn't even react to it initially.
Watch the 2nd video, and it is crazy how fast the firing happened.
This post was edited on 6/13/16 at 8:29 pm
Posted on 6/13/16 at 8:29 pm to rmnldr
Everyone's initial reaction isn't to run from a mass murderer, it's to get out of the way of someone who obviously has a personal issue with someone else inside the bar.
It's only after he's cleared a 20 ft perimeter around him that people would realize, oh shite, he's trying to kill anyone and everyone.
By then, it's a little difficult to get to him since he has an assault rifle.
This guy was lucky in the order and obviously had some skill.
It's only after he's cleared a 20 ft perimeter around him that people would realize, oh shite, he's trying to kill anyone and everyone.
By then, it's a little difficult to get to him since he has an assault rifle.
This guy was lucky in the order and obviously had some skill.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 8:31 pm to Tigers_Saints
Definitely semi-automatic
Posted on 6/13/16 at 8:33 pm to Tigers_Saints
Never once did I bring up myself being "magically in position" it's about a mentality of "hide and die" that I first brought up. I never even brought up running away. I specifically mentioned "hide and die" which is where people will run away only for the killer to find them and kill them.
I'm a proponent of immediate and planned action against an active shooter.
The first hope is that there is police or armed security already on scene, the second is that there is an armed citizen, the third is that someone or some people take action and disarm the gunman with force.
I don't blame people for running or being caught of guard and I especially don't blame those who were killed. In fact, I never blamed anyone for anything throughout the posts I've made in this thread. I suggested a solution to a mass shooting event that never included blaming or promoting myself as some hero.
The simple fact is that those who are able to should always take action and try their hardest to prevent more people from being maimed and killed. There should be no "bystanders".
I'm a proponent of immediate and planned action against an active shooter.
The first hope is that there is police or armed security already on scene, the second is that there is an armed citizen, the third is that someone or some people take action and disarm the gunman with force.
I don't blame people for running or being caught of guard and I especially don't blame those who were killed. In fact, I never blamed anyone for anything throughout the posts I've made in this thread. I suggested a solution to a mass shooting event that never included blaming or promoting myself as some hero.
The simple fact is that those who are able to should always take action and try their hardest to prevent more people from being maimed and killed. There should be no "bystanders".
Posted on 6/13/16 at 8:35 pm to Tigers_Saints
Based off of my personal experience of seeing the reaction that a person has when they see someone lying on the ground bleeding from a gunshot wound, I would say that it is much more difficult for people to stay calm than what is assumed by the OP. With that said, having been the person that had gotten shot, I was extraordinarily calm and definitely would have been in the mindset to get up and fight if I was in the situation. The adrenaline alone would make you a formidable opponent if you could reach the shooter. Bystanders in my opinion would not be fueled by adrenaline, but by fear and confusion which I think would be counterproductive in a fight to disarm someone.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 8:38 pm to xxKylexx
quote:
Even if it meant me dying, I'd have rushed him in hopes of getting others out.
Give me a break. In that situation you have no clue what's going on, where the shooter is, or how many shooters there are. Not to mention you probably had a few drinks.
It's incredibly difficult to assess the situation and act....and by the time you figure out what's happening it might be too late.
I don't fault anyone for their reaction of running away or seeking shelter.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 8:40 pm to rmnldr
Are you seriously Monday morning quarterbacking a horrific mass shooting?
Posted on 6/13/16 at 8:40 pm to T4
quote:
The adrenaline alone would make you a formidable opponent if you could reach the shooter. Bystanders in my opinion would not be fueled by adrenaline, but by fear and confusion which I think would be counterproductive in a fight to disarm someone.
There's also poor visibility and a lot of noise. Simply locating the shooter in a bar or movie theater is a challenge, much less attacking him. That's one of the reasons those venues are targeted. Major tactical advantage for the shooter.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 8:42 pm to rmnldr
quote:
I never even brought up running away. I specifically mentioned "hide and die" which is where people will run away only for the killer to find them and kill them.
quote:
I'm a proponent of immediate and planned action against an active shooter.
Watch the snapchat in the link I posted. Your plan would be meaningless
quote:
In fact, I never blamed anyone for anything throughout the posts I've made in this thread.
Well except for when you literally did. Here, I'll quote you a separate time:
quote:
but the simple fact is that if someone or a group of people would have rushed the gunman, not as many people would have been killed or injured.
Sounds like blame to me. According to you, there were more victims because the victims didn't act like you would have on Hearts of Iron XIIII.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 8:43 pm to lsunurse
quote:
Are you seriously Monday morning quarterbacking a horrific mass shooting?
That is a perfect way to put it.
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