- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: The Boeing 737 Max Crisis Is a Leadership Failure
Posted on 7/21/19 at 7:51 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
Posted on 7/21/19 at 7:51 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:I was talking to a Caterpillar corporate executive at a family reunion this weekend.
re: The Boeing 737 Max Crisis Is a Leadership Failure
I brought this subject up.
Caterpillar would have handled it differently according to this person.
I would have too, not that Boeing asked.
Posted on 7/23/19 at 2:29 am to Sentrius
quote:
Oh and frick Boeing for letting the bean counters and cost cutters run the show for too long. That brought this 737 max shite show on their heads.
Here's an interesting article that goes into the background of the merger that killed Boeing:
The Coming Boeing Bailout?
quote:
The merger sparked a war between the engineers and the bean-counters; as one analyst put it, "Some of the board of directors would rather have spent money on a walk-in humidor for shareholders than on a new plane." The white collar engineers responded to the aggressive cost-cutting and politically motivated design choices with the unthinkable, affiliating with the AFL-CIO and going on strike for the first time in the company’s 56-year history. "We weren't fighting against Boeing," said the union leader. "We were fighting to save Boeing."
Posted on 7/23/19 at 2:37 am to Sentrius
quote:
Another genius example of Boeing cost cutting: Boeing ending 757 production way too early when there was still going to be demand for it ten years down the road
Here's an article from three years ago describing why the 737 can't do what the 757 could do:
An airline pilot reveals why a plane Boeing discarded 12 years ago is the one they desperately need
Posted on 7/23/19 at 6:23 am to TouchedTheAxeIn82
The symptoms of the recent 737 Max events mirror those of an earlier Airbus 330 incident (erroneous Angle of Attack readings). I think it's a software issue. Why it has not been resolved yet is puzzling.
Qantas 72 (Airbus A330-303)
"The aircraft made a sudden uncommanded pitch down maneuver, recording –0.8 g, reaching 8.4 degrees pitch down and rapidly descending 650 feet (200 m). Twenty seconds later, the pilots were able to return the aircraft to the assigned cruise flight level 370. At 12:45:08, the aircraft then made a second uncommanded maneuver of similar nature, this time reaching +0.2 g, 3.5 degrees pitch down and descending 400 feet (120 m), re-establishing level flight 16 seconds later."
Findings
"After detailed forensic analysis of the FDR data, the flight control primary computer (FCPC) software and the air data inertial reference unit (ADIRU), it was determined that the CPU of the ADIRU corrupted the angle of attack (AOA) data. The exact nature was that the ADIRU CPU erroneously relabelled the altitude data word so that the binary data that represented 37,012 (the altitude at the time of the incident) would represent an angle of attack of 50.625 degrees. The FCPC then processed the erroneously high AOA data, triggering the high-AOA protection mode, which sent a command to the electrical flight control system (EFCS) to pitch the nose down."
Qantas 72 (Airbus A330-303)
"The aircraft made a sudden uncommanded pitch down maneuver, recording –0.8 g, reaching 8.4 degrees pitch down and rapidly descending 650 feet (200 m). Twenty seconds later, the pilots were able to return the aircraft to the assigned cruise flight level 370. At 12:45:08, the aircraft then made a second uncommanded maneuver of similar nature, this time reaching +0.2 g, 3.5 degrees pitch down and descending 400 feet (120 m), re-establishing level flight 16 seconds later."
Findings
"After detailed forensic analysis of the FDR data, the flight control primary computer (FCPC) software and the air data inertial reference unit (ADIRU), it was determined that the CPU of the ADIRU corrupted the angle of attack (AOA) data. The exact nature was that the ADIRU CPU erroneously relabelled the altitude data word so that the binary data that represented 37,012 (the altitude at the time of the incident) would represent an angle of attack of 50.625 degrees. The FCPC then processed the erroneously high AOA data, triggering the high-AOA protection mode, which sent a command to the electrical flight control system (EFCS) to pitch the nose down."
This post was edited on 7/23/19 at 6:25 am
Posted on 7/23/19 at 6:35 am to GeauxxxTigers23
Boeing’s shitty culture is going to cause NASA to get out of building rockets as well. They suck, and there’s likely no way the SLS gets built under their watch. Just an opinion.
Posted on 7/23/19 at 7:10 am to tigerpawl
It's pretty simple.
Boeing redesigned the flight control software to correct high AoA stall performance due to the use of larger engines the airframe was never designed to handle.
Boeing didn't fully document this feature / bug in the aircraft's flight manual and the pilot flying was thus unaware.
Under some fairly ordinary AoA conditions, the software took over flight control authority from the pilot flying, who unaware was not able to overcome.
This behavior is something I'd never, ever expect from Boeing, and similar to the long standing knock against Airbus' approach to flight control automation.
It's criminal, and even U.S. based airline pilots are screaming bloody murder.
Boeing redesigned the flight control software to correct high AoA stall performance due to the use of larger engines the airframe was never designed to handle.
Boeing didn't fully document this feature / bug in the aircraft's flight manual and the pilot flying was thus unaware.
Under some fairly ordinary AoA conditions, the software took over flight control authority from the pilot flying, who unaware was not able to overcome.
This behavior is something I'd never, ever expect from Boeing, and similar to the long standing knock against Airbus' approach to flight control automation.
It's criminal, and even U.S. based airline pilots are screaming bloody murder.
Posted on 7/23/19 at 7:23 am to Gaston
Accurate assessment.
Those change orders though...
Privatization was a foolish move by NASA, but let's face it, they've turned into nothing more than a contracting organization.
Those change orders though...
Privatization was a foolish move by NASA, but let's face it, they've turned into nothing more than a contracting organization.
Posted on 7/23/19 at 7:23 am to Mr Breeze
Fly by wire is for pussies anyway
Posted on 7/23/19 at 7:29 am to N2cars
Well they always were, just with shittier contractors than now exist for space hardware. LockMart and Boeing are nowhere near the Skunk Works level that gov contractors once were. LM has a bit better culture, but still nothing like its agile competitors.
Posted on 7/23/19 at 7:38 am to Gaston
They had a mission before and they had a better handle on the contractors.
Now, the inmates are running the asylum.
Boeing is one the most arrogant companies I've ever had dealings with, not at all surprised about their current issues.
Now, the inmates are running the asylum.
Boeing is one the most arrogant companies I've ever had dealings with, not at all surprised about their current issues.
Posted on 7/23/19 at 7:52 am to N2cars
Corporate structure and high level engineering make terrible bedfellows. The story of our past 50 years of space...there will be books written.
Posted on 7/23/19 at 7:56 am to Gaston
I may be prejudiced b/c of my relationship with USA, but things have clearly went to hell post-Shuttle. NASA bears most of the blame for this.
Sorry about the hijack OP.
Sorry about the hijack OP.
Posted on 7/23/19 at 8:02 am to GeauxxxTigers23
So is it a buy or sell?
Posted on 7/23/19 at 8:04 am to N2cars
What happened to NASA? Why did it work out that way?
Posted on 7/23/19 at 8:09 am to Lima Whiskey
Lack of direction, lack of mission. Constant leadership change which results in no leadership. Also, the internal struggle of human exploration vs. unmanned missions.
Procurement basically outsourcing everything and becoming so lazy that they let contractors run the show.
Constant "mission slip", deadlines move to the right on the timeline.
There's a lot more, but that's some high (low) points.
Procurement basically outsourcing everything and becoming so lazy that they let contractors run the show.
Constant "mission slip", deadlines move to the right on the timeline.
There's a lot more, but that's some high (low) points.
Posted on 7/23/19 at 8:09 am to N2cars
They should have constantly been building ‘shuttles’, and the last one should not have looked like a flying bus. After Hubble when you knew you didn’t need a cargo transport...IDK, that many years of cost plus and you MFing get billions to build planes for them too. The X-33 is it?
Posted on 7/23/19 at 9:53 am to TigerDeBaiter
quote:How many other brand new planes are 3rd world pilots flying straight into the ground?
Have any American pilots crashed the 737 Max?
Just checking.
Just checking.
We know this particular error occurred 3 times, 2 of which resulted in complete hull losses. The only other time this instance occurred was on a previous Lion Air flight that happened to have a 3rd pilot in the cockpit to help figure it out in the mere 30 seconds or so you have to figure it out.
This post was edited on 7/23/19 at 9:56 am
Posted on 7/23/19 at 10:26 am to Cold Drink
quote:
The only other time this instance occurred was on a previous Lion Air flight that happened to have a 3rd pilot in the cockpit to help figure it out in the mere 30 seconds or so you have to figure it out.
This is new information to me.
Posted on 7/23/19 at 10:47 am to Cold Drink
"They" initially threw that last pilot under the bus. Then it came out he had 8000+ hours.
I get it, he wasn't a retired NASA astronaut (looking at you Hoot), but he wasn't an untrained idiot, either.
I get it, he wasn't a retired NASA astronaut (looking at you Hoot), but he wasn't an untrained idiot, either.
Popular
Back to top



0






