re: The attack on this country is hitting all institutions

quote:

---

Well pardon me for thinking that was what it was about when your entire first paragraph was about cops in Atlanta.

---

I don't really think that's what you thought. The battle against cops/authority, the possible decline of cities, etc. is only minimally connected to police brutality, and I think you probably believe likewise, even if you won't tell me.

My guess is that you're not particularly comfortable with all the shite going on either, but the police brutality/Floyd argument is comfortable ground for you (and a place where you have a legitimate and logical argument).

quote:

---

There is no question the Unites States is under attack from within, and I'm not sure there is a full recovery from it at this point. The sheer stupidity of some of this is mind boggling.

---

I know there are a good number of Democrats and progressives on the OT. I have two honest questions I’d like to hear their opinion on. To them I ask how do you view all of this going on?

1. Do you still support the Democrat Party and “progressivism” now that the facade has fallen and they’re openly trying to carry out a Marxist Revolution to overthrow our constitutional republic?

2. Did you know all along this was their goal or were you fooled?

(ETA: if you’re going to just downvote my questions you should at least have the balls to answer them)

Niasse for Chucky straight up who says no

quote:

---

1. Do you still support the Democrat Party and “progressivism” now that the facade has fallen and they’re openly trying to carry out a Marxist Revolution to overthrow our constitutional republic?

2. Did you know all along this was their goal or were you fooled?

---

I think you’re a fool that spends too much time consuming radical media.

This is an authoritarian pocket of the the far left wing. Anyone that believes this is an accurate representation of the Democratic Party today is a jackass.

These are not progressives, they are militant ideologues. The Democratic Party abandoned their base long ago, and this is the result—legions of people forgotten and crushed by the system banding together in opposition of it. The Democratic Party, just like the Republicans, work for large corporations. They don’t work for woke people. The only reason mainstream politicians have jumped on this is to earn brownie points.

quote:

---

I'm intrigued, because I'm not really sure what's subjective or debatable in my post. I do think people can reasonably disagree on how "concerning" these things are (as opposed to whether the things are true/accurate/actually happening).

---

You're obviously an intelligent guy, Petti, so it's likely you can appreciate looking at things from other perspectives.

The items listed in the OP are all true, to an extent. There's definitely something happening in this country but, in my opinion, and in the opinion of a majority of Americans, the more pressing issues have nothing to do with the sideshow issues in his post.

Two days ago a sitting POTUS called his predecessor guilty of treason without offering a shred of evidence. Last Friday evening, the US Attorney for SDNY, responsible for a large number cases tied to Trump and his associates, was announced as resigning by AG Barr (he hadn't resigned, he was fired) and replaced by a Trump pawn. We had a US president admitting to tamping down testing to keep the COVID numbers low. We have a US president spitting in the faces of international allies. We have the EU saying they aren't going to allow US visitors into the country because we've been unable to contain COVID. We have a US president already talking about fraudulent elections, fighting to take away healthcare via the court system, springing a man who plead guilty to lying to the FBI in court TWICE free from prosecution. I mean I could go on and on and on about the things that have occurred in the last three years that are blatant swipes at the basis of our democracy, shitting on the rule of law, and instigating divisiveness in this country.

So when people on this board freak out because, "OMG! BLM and Aunt Jemima!", some of us really couldn't fricking care less because there are some TRULY important things going on that we should ALL be concerned about...things being done by our government that truly threatens our democracy and way of life.

quote:

---

This country is most assuredly under attack and by very very bad people.

---

Yet not one blurb from you about your president?

quote:

---

presume you live in Atlanta. Just stick to what you do daily and I can almost guarantee none of this is going to disrupt your life.

---

Horrible advice for anyone living in Atlanta right now.

Move. Your tax dollars are doing nothing but funding this nonsense. And your politicians actively hate you. Get out.

quote:

---

The items listed in the OP are all true, to an extent. There's definitely something happening in this country but, in my opinion, and in the opinion of a majority of Americans, the more pressing issues have nothing to do with the sideshow issues in his post.

---

Obviously I object. These are core issues that impact all of us. More below.

quote:

---

Two days ago a sitting POTUS called his predecessor guilty of treason without offering a shred of evidence.

---

I think you can make a good argument that Trump is effective because like the people he wars against, he's somewhat post-truth. I accept there might be long term damage from the short term gains Trump provides.

quote:

---

Last Friday evening, the US Attorney for SDNY, responsible for a large number cases tied to Trump and his associates, was announced as resigning by AG Barr (he hadn't resigned, he was fired) and replaced by a Trump pawn.

---

I don't know much about this. I'm going to doubt there is some miscarriage of justice because almost all such claims are hyperbole when it comes to Trump, but I'm ignorant about it.

quote:

---

We had a US president admitting to tamping down testing to keep the COVID numbers low. We have a US president spitting in the faces of international allies.

---

Talk about a "sideshow." The President is reckless with language. Everyone in positions of authority say there has been no suppression of testing, and the numbers agree. This is the type of fake scandal Trump loves because media goes out on an island and the public ends up going "who gives a shite, go away."

quote:

---

We have the EU saying they aren't going to allow US visitors into the country because we've been unable to contain COVID.

---

Again, this is silly. The US outperformed almost all EU countries. We're a big, connected country that is far more important to world innovation, tech, manufacturing, etc. than Europe. We can't afford to shut down, the world can't afford us shutting down. People are going to get COVID, we can't crash our economy to battle a sub 1% CFR disease. The rhetoric on the world's communicable diseases leader (USA) over COVID reveals a lot about the motives of the critics (basically, naturally inclined to unjustly criticize the US because of Trump).

quote:

---

We have a US president already talking about fraudulent elections, fighting to take away healthcare via the court system, springing a man who plead guilty to lying to the FBI in court TWICE free from prosecution.

---

Again, major sideshow territory. The media writes regularly about "what if POTUS refuses to leave", Democrats regularly refuse to concede without drawn out Court battles and jump at every opportunity to loosen measures to ensure that voting isn't manipulated. We both know about this because our governor, Stacy Abrams, frequently talks about it.

I'm skipping over your healthcare argument because it's dumb and you know it's dumb.

You're far more concerned about a guy who lied about something of no importance in a perjury trap than you are about a multi year corruption of justice saga that was completely unjustified and propped up by a complicit media. Weird.

quote:

---

So when people on this board freak out because, "OMG! BLM and Aunt Jemima!", some of us really couldn't fricking care less because there are some TRULY important things going on that we should ALL be concerned about...things being done by our government that truly threatens our democracy and way of life.

---

No offense, but you're part of the post-truth I'm talking about.

Imagine conflating syrup with a hostile and armed takeover of an inner city in which a mayor goes on national TV and says "what's the harm"? Or when cities around the country have police constrained from protecting people and businesses because the anti-democratic mob can't be provoked.

I'm sorry, I just don't really care that Trump isn't Presidential when mainstream people on the left are discussing how free speech, police, military, merit, individualism, etc. are tools of white supremacy that must be dismantled. Particularly when the Trump hyperventilating comes from a crowd that couldn't give a shite when Obama's IRS targeted conservative groups or when Obama's DOJ wiretapped conservative journalists or when the FBI gave Hillary a pass on textbook criminality or defrauded FISA courts to spy on a rival campaign or invented a lie to mislead the country about an American ambassador being killed.

To be clear, I don't really give a shite about that stuff either, everything going on right now is bigger than that too. But your "Flynn got off" stuff sounds ridiculous considering your silence on the above.

quote:

---

There are aspects of it I don't agree with. That's standard with any large movement like that. On the whole though, I am 110% behind holding law enforcement to a higher level of accountability. I do think the "defund the police" argument is stupid and damaging to the overall movement though.

---

Ok. Fair. Although I disagree that it's damaging to the movement. Well, I disagree with you that the movement is something that would be damaged by "defund the police." Because you think the movement is about police brutality and justice, and I think it's about deconstructing norms and undermining institutions and authorities in a liberal society.

In reality, we're probably both right:

You're correct that a ton of people protesting are advocating for whatever they perceive as justice and a lot are probably focused on police brutality, regardless of whether that narrative is factual/accurate (aka I question the premise, but I accept they believe in it and are opposed to it).

I'm correct that the underpinnings of what we're seeing have very little to do with police brutality. Statues, cancel culture, critical theory, etc. Being against police brutality or racism is the motte to the "defund police, the founders must be cancelled" bailey. And that includes the BLM organization.

The 23 that downvoted OP

I’d like to hear your spin on this