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stout
Arizona Fan
Smoking Crack with Hunter Biden
Member since Sep 2006
157232 posts

Text messages between Jack Dorsey and Musk about Twitter

SIAP

If you think Jack is sincere then it appears he knew what a cesspool Twitter became and how to fix it but his hands were tied. Jack is big on Bitcoin because of decentralization and his text here reads as if he thinks a speech for all platform also needs to be decentralized to truly represent everyone.








The document is from Twitter v. Elon Musk (2022) lawsuit
This post was edited on 9/30 at 8:05 pm


fightin tigers
Downtown Prairieville
Member since Mar 2008
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frick, Dorsey carrying that whole convo


efrad
USA Fan
Member since Nov 2007
17969 posts

I've basically said this before, but the idea is basically Mastodon, which allows anyone to run their own Mastodon instance and host users which can post across server instances from one to another, using a standard protocol

The problem was always that without any company or group backing it, it's not going to attract users and take off. If they can make a real impact then this would be cool


Caraway Rye
Kentucky Fan
Member since Oct 2021
5108 posts

People who text in paragraphs are the worst

They might start a leftist platform of short texts that mean nothing


fightin tigers
Downtown Prairieville
Member since Mar 2008
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"I had no idea the bot numbers were over-inflated"

"Is this a text exchange between you an bitter exiting board member/ceo discussing details of the company?"


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81
roguetiger15
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2013
14856 posts

quote:

frick, Dorsey carrying that whole convo


As expected. Musk was still in the “fact finding phase” in regards to Twitter. The smartest people in the room speak the least.


Korkstand
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Member since Nov 2003
26775 posts
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quote:

I've basically said this before, but the idea is basically Mastodon, which allows anyone to run their own Mastodon instance and host users which can post across server instances from one to another, using a standard protocol
Exactly, I came to mention Mastodon, and there's more to the fediverse like PeerTube, diaspora, etc. All the pieces are there, but...
quote:

The problem was always that without any company or group backing it, it's not going to attract users and take off. If they can make a real impact then this would be cool
And even then, Google failed to launch a social network with all their billions. There's a whole lot of randomness and momentum to these things, but it feels like the tide might be turning. Hopefully.


rintintin
Tulane Fan
Life is Life
Member since Nov 2008
15527 posts

Tldr version

Jack: Twitter should've never been a company the best platform needs to be decentralized Twitter should've never been a company the best platform needs to be decentralized Twitter should've never been a company the best platform needs to be decentralized Twitter should've never been a company the best platform needs to be decentralized Twitter should've never been a company the best platform needs to be decentralized Twitter should've never been a company the best platform needs to be decentralized Twitter should've never been a company the best platform needs to be decentralized

Elon: CSB


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216
Team Vote
LSU Fan
DFW
Member since Aug 2014
7356 posts

I’ve always felt like Jack hated what Twitter had become, this isn’t really surprising to me. It seems like he doesn’t even know how to fix the monster he created.


lostinbr
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Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Oct 2017
7112 posts
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quote:

The problem was always that without any company or group backing it, it's not going to attract users and take off. If they can make a real impact then this would be cool

There’s also the question of whether any platform can truly be successful (as measured against the social media giants) without the invisible hand constantly maximizing screen time. The algorithms, the tedious attention to detail on the smallest GUI tweaks, the refinement of features to maximize overall engagement.. these things are incredibly difficult to replicate without a legit profit motive.

Not to mention the difficulty of developing a business model that makes sense for actually hosting all of that data without ad revenue. If the idea is to create an open source protocol that’s decentralized, then let companies build on that framework.. OK. But I’m not sure how that avoids any of the issues we see with Twitter and Facebook.

I just don’t see how any open source alternative competes. There’s a subset of people who are likely willing to go that route out of principle, but it’s a very small percentage of social media users.


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Korkstand
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Member since Nov 2003
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quote:

There’s also the question of whether any platform can truly be successful (as measured against the social media giants) without the invisible hand constantly maximizing screen time. The algorithms, the tedious attention to detail on the smallest GUI tweaks, the refinement of features to maximize overall engagement.. these things are incredibly difficult to replicate without a legit profit motive.
So while these things do boost profits by boosting user engagement, I'm not sure that they boost user satisfaction. Or maybe engagement is satisfaction, I don't know.
quote:

Not to mention the difficulty of developing a business model that makes sense for actually hosting all of that data without ad revenue. If the idea is to create an open source protocol that’s decentralized, then let companies build on that framework.. OK. But I’m not sure how that avoids any of the issues we see with Twitter and Facebook.

I just don’t see how any open source alternative competes. There’s a subset of people who are likely willing to go that route out of principle, but it’s a very small percentage of social media users.

Many people, myself included, run public services using their own resources for no reward whatsoever aside from the satisfaction of doing it. But if some economics are required to really take on the likes of big tech, I imagine there are many methods involving crypto that could work. The foundational services of file hosting, compute, and database in p2p distributed form already exist, driven by various tokenomics. Also I don't know why a distributed network can't have ads, even if they are opt-in. Brave browser has optional ads that earn users crypto, which can be "tipped" to sites. Actually I think that gamifying ads and allowing users to earn and pay others for content/likes/whatever could be a driver for adoption and engagement.


gizmothepug
LSU Fan
Louisiana
Member since Apr 2015
4099 posts

Social media in this country gave us President Biden, enough fricking said.


supadave3
LSU Fan
Houston, TX
Member since Dec 2005
29034 posts

quote:

Google failed to launch a social network with all their billion


That was a huge failure. They put out an honest effort, but it fell flat quick.


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lostinbr
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Oct 2017
7112 posts
 Online 

quote:

So while these things do boost profits by boosting user engagement, I'm not sure that they boost user satisfaction. Or maybe engagement is satisfaction, I don't know.

It’s not that they boost satisfaction so much as they boost the viability of the platform. More screen time = more participation = more screen time for other users, if that makes sense. It’s about maintaining a critical mass that’s needed to compete with the other big tech firms.
quote:

But if some economics are required to really take on the likes of big tech, I imagine there are many methods involving crypto that could work. The foundational services of file hosting, compute, and database in p2p distributed form already exist, driven by various tokenomics.

Yeah I agree this would seem to be the way to make it work without ad (it subscription) revenue. It’s not exactly an easy thing to accomplish, though.

OTOH, there’s nothing that says they have to keep everything hosted forever either. The solution would probably be a combination of reducing hosting requirements and some creative economics.
quote:

Also I don't know why a distributed network can't have ads, even if they are opt-in.

I was just basing that on Dorsey’s comments about not using ads to fund the platform.


dallastigers
Member since Dec 2003
3487 posts

I always like the idea of a p2p version like Twister and something like smartphone ad hoc network like FireChat for messaging, but I am also still waiting pied piper’s pipernet.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twister_(software)



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Korkstand
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2003
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quote:

I was just basing that on Dorsey’s comments about not using ads to fund the platform.
Yeah I don't know how much he fleshed out that idea. If it grows into what he wants, then it will be a prime platform for ads, and if they can't buy them then they'll do it via guerrilla marketing. And if no censorship is the whole backbone of it, what stops it from being inundated with ads that nobody is paying or getting paid for? I think it would self-destruct immediately after reaching critical mass.


Ross
Auburn Fan
Member since Oct 2007
46824 posts

I’m a fairly big fan of decentralized protocols for their censorship resistance, at a high level this may be a great thing for social media.

Jack is a big fan of Bitcoin but hasn’t really supported web3 initiatives in the past, but his vision sounds a lot like a web3 initiative in its own right.


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Ross
Auburn Fan
Member since Oct 2007
46824 posts

quote:

Yeah I don't know how much he fleshed out that idea. If it grows into what he wants, then it will be a prime platform for ads, and if they can't buy them then they'll do it via guerrilla marketing. And if no censorship is the whole backbone of it, what stops it from being inundated with ads that nobody is paying or getting paid for? I think it would self-destruct immediately after reaching critical mass.


One early idea to address guerrilla marketing/bots is requiring some kind of buy-in by each of the users that makes it cost prohibitive to abuse the protocol. Essentially this is censorship against DDoS type attack vectors, but based on Twitter, bot armies are the primary offender for pitching scams and whatnot and a big reason the experience sucks. You already mentioned crypto tokenomics; I think we could absolutely look to some of the crypto models for disincentivizing bad actors looking to abuse or defraud the network and encouraging people to support the protocol, or ideas in that same vein

Anyway, I think it’s a potentially pretty nifty idea and wouldn’t hate to see more of the internet shift to models like this if censorship gets problematic under the centralized authorities.
This post was edited on 10/1 at 12:36 am


Korkstand
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2003
26775 posts
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quote:

One early idea to address guerrilla marketing/bots is requiring some kind of buy-in by each of the users that makes it cost prohibitive to abuse the protocol.
Wouldn't that also limit growth?
quote:

You already mentioned crypto tokenomics; I think we could absolutely look to some of the crypto models for disincentivizing bad actors looking to abuse or defraud the network and encouraging people to support the protocol, or ideas in that same vein.
Yeah, I'm not sure what that would look like though. I think we can all agree that at least some censorship is absolutely required. We might not all agree on what exactly should be censored or removed, but I think everyone has at least one thing whether it's the type of imagery that is pretty universally accepted as a no-no, or bot abuse, or whatever. But if that isn't centrally controlled, then it's in the hands of the users and I don't know how to prevent that from becoming a circle-jerk echo chamber.

Maybe there just can't be one platform to rule them all. Maybe it just has to be a loosely-federated protocol, and if it splits into multiple federations based on user or host self-moderation then so be it. We divide ourselves in the real social world, maybe it just can't be any other way. I don't know what that would mean for the token. Maybe each host or federation of hosts will settle on a layer 2.

I'm just thinking out loud.


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04
magildachunks
Member since Oct 2006
31718 posts

quote:

Social media in this country gave us President Biden, enough fricking said.




It also gave us President Trump.

No President in history has ever used and benefited more from social media.

Y'all loved Twitter until they kicked him off their platform.


And every attempt by him to start a rival since has failed miserably.


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