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Study - Electric Cars Produce More Pollution Than Fossil Fuel-Burning Cars

Posted on 5/19/16 at 11:05 am
Posted by Shexter
Prairieville
Member since Feb 2014
21763 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 11:05 am
quote:

The study, conducted by Victor Timmers and Peter Achten at the University of Edinburgh, and published by the journal Atmospheric Environment, found that heavier electric vehicles produce as many pollutants as their lighter weight conventional vehicles.

quote:

Electric vehicles tend to produce more pollutants from tire and brake wear, due in large part to their batteries, as well as the other parts needed to propel them, making them heavier. These pollutants are emitted when electric vehicle tires and brakes deteriorate as they accelerate or slow down while driving. Timmers and Achten’s research suggests exhaust from traditional vehicles is only about one-third of the total emissions. Read more: LINK


https://dailycaller.com/2016/05/15/electric-vehicles-emit-more-pollutants-than-fossil-fuel-burning-cars-says-study/

Link to the actual report if you wish to pay the $35 per copy Non-exhaust Particulate Matter Emissions from Electric Vehicles

quote:

Further, the particulate matters are worse than fuel emissions, because they cause more health problems. “We found that non-exhaust emissions, from brakes, tires and the road, are far larger than exhaust emissions in all modern cars,” Achten wrote in the study. He continued: “These are more toxic than emissions from modern engines so they are likely to be key factors in the extra heart attacks, strokes and asthma attacks seen when air pollution levels surge.

quote:

The increase in pollutants are generated from factors like tire wear dust and brake pad dust, and tend to increase as the electric vehicles and hybrids get heavier — due in part because of the added weight of the cars’ lithium batteries.


quote:

Chemicals and gasses from tires, brakes and whatnot also pollute, often with nasty stuff. Because of those heavy batteries (and the pollution it takes to make them) electric cars are simply not much better than traditional gasoline ones.

This post was edited on 5/19/16 at 2:30 pm
Posted by Clyde Tipton
Planet Earth
Member since Dec 2007
40907 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 11:06 am to
Posted by Hog on the Hill
AR
Member since Jun 2009
13494 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 11:11 am to
This article isn't saying that electric cars produce more pollution, it's saying that they produce the same amount of pollution. There's more pollutants from tire and brake wear, but less from other sources. The net pollution is equal to non-electric cars.

It's still noteworthy, though.

We're still in the infancy of electric cars, and I would bet that innovations will eventually allow for lighter electric vehicles, and therefore electric vehicles with lower emissions.

We shall see.
Posted by Tigeralum2008
Yankees Fan
Member since Apr 2012
17754 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 11:13 am to
I want a $30K electric car because it is cheaper per mile to operate than gas powered vehicles.

The environment is of secondary concern.
This post was edited on 5/19/16 at 11:14 am
Posted by Nado Jenkins83
Land of the Free
Member since Nov 2012
66489 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 11:14 am to


nickel mine to produce batteries




oilrig.


which one looks to be harming the environment.
Posted by AwesomeSauce
Das Boot
Member since May 2015
11625 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 11:18 am to
quote:

The net pollution is equal to non-electric cars.

Factor in the higher number of pollutants for production and it is a huge negative.

When the pollutants for mass production were discovered they were said to be outweighed by the reduced amount during operation. Here we see that this is simply not true. Factor in that the pollutants being produced more by electric cars are in fact more harmful and electric cars should take a YUUUGE hit.

Posted by Nado Jenkins83
Land of the Free
Member since Nov 2012
66489 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 11:25 am to
its better for the environment to drive a big 4x4 than an electric car.

it is economical though compared with internal combustion
Posted by LSUcjb318
Member since Jul 2008
2364 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 11:28 am to
LinkedIn will tell you that Victor Timmers is doing a BEng at Edinburgh graduating in 2017.
He did an internship at this consultancy company in what would have been his second year when this paper was produced.

Hmmm...
Posted by tke857
Member since Jan 2012
12195 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 11:32 am to
still not returning my

Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45990 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 11:33 am to
How much money did the US government waste to pump the electric vehicle over the last 8 years? That $$$ would have done alot more to reduce carbon emissions if we had spent it on traffic congestion relief or as tax credits for trading in a traditional auto on one that gets better mpg, or just about anything else.
Posted by pngtiger
Mobile
Member since May 2004
1838 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 11:53 am to
Did they factor in the pollution needed to charge the battery? Because it's very inefficient. Considering the efficiency of most power plants is 31-34% (coal, oil, nuclear), with the best fossil fuel (natural gas) at about 43%, then add in the losses in transmission, etc., the efficiency approaches the average of most internal combustion engines (20%). Yes, the efficiency of the battery is 85-90%, but it still has to be charged.

from just this perspective, I don't see how electric cars are less of a pollutant. Then you add in the caustic nature of the production and disposal of the battery. Now, if you're charging from solar or hydroelectric, it's obviously better
Posted by Chad504boy
4 posts
Member since Feb 2005
179896 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 11:57 am to
quote:

oilrig.
Posted by Tigeralum2008
Yankees Fan
Member since Apr 2012
17754 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 12:07 pm to
Those Got Damn batteries are just as "pollutin"


Posted by Nado Jenkins83
Land of the Free
Member since Nov 2012
66489 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 12:08 pm to
that's one occurance


each mine produces acid rain throughout its life. over and over again
Posted by ruzil
WNC
Member since Feb 2012
18463 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 12:15 pm to
Did they factor in disposing of the spent batteries?

Posted by Y.A. Tittle
Member since Sep 2003
111638 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 12:15 pm to
quote:

it is economical though compared with internal combustion


Absent any incentives/subsidies, is it?
Posted by KamaCausey_LSU
Member since Apr 2013
17836 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 12:18 pm to
Link to study or article?
Nm. Found your link.

What qualifies as a "heavy weight electric vehicle" and what did they use a "light weight conventional vehicle"?
This post was edited on 5/19/16 at 12:21 pm
Posted by Tigeralum2008
Yankees Fan
Member since Apr 2012
17754 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 12:20 pm to
you guys are assuming the world will continue using old battery technology.


New generation batteries don't even use nickel anymore.

Graphene, Lithium ion, and sodium ion batteries are on our doorstep. Their disposal and production will be much cleaner that current battery tech.

Article on next gen batteries
Posted by Tigeralum2008
Yankees Fan
Member since Apr 2012
17754 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 12:23 pm to
an electric car weighs 4600-4900 lbs.

A Ford F-150 weighs 4-5000lbs

A Toyota Camry weighs 3400lbs

How many of my fellow truck driving baws feel bad because they are using up their brakes and tires more than if they had purchased a sedan? I for one do not
This post was edited on 5/19/16 at 12:24 pm
Posted by KamaCausey_LSU
Member since Apr 2013
17836 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 12:25 pm to
Here's the abstract summary from the study.

quote:


A positive relationship exists between vehicle weight and non-exhaust emissions.


Electric vehicles are 24% heavier than their conventional counterparts.


Electric vehicle PM emissions are comparable to those of conventional vehicles.


Non-exhaust sources account for 90% of PM10 and 85% of PM2.5 from traffic.


Future policy should focus on reducing vehicle weight.


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