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Started By
Message
re: Standoff between Police and Students at the Chinese University of Hong Kong
Posted on 11/12/19 at 9:10 am to MrLarson
Posted on 11/12/19 at 9:10 am to MrLarson
quote:
I thought the Brits gave it back to China?
There is an agreement that Hong Kong would continue to enjoy the same freedoms and rights (freedom of press, freedom of assembly, independent judiciary, etc.) that it had under British rule for 50 years.
It's a concept called "One country, two systems."
China has proposed it as a solution to the Taiwan problem, but Taiwan is looking at Hong Kong right now and saying "no way."
This post was edited on 11/12/19 at 9:11 am
1
Posted on 11/12/19 at 9:18 am to MoarKilometers
It falls under Article 29:
"The homes and other premises of Hong Kong residents shall be inviolable. Arbitrary or unlawful search of, or intrusion into, a resident's home or other premises shall be prohibited."
8,000 students live on the CUHK campus, so previous judges have ruled that campuses count as "premises of Hong Kong residents."
Here's a previous situation at HKU where the president vowed not to let police on campus without a lawful warrant:
LINK
Also, warrants are expected in any search and seizure in Hong Kong, as this ruling indicates:
LINK
It's worth mentioning that these Articles under the Basic Law even would have applied to me when I lived in Hong Kong. Even though I was a US Citizen, I had a Hong Kong ID and was a "Hong Kong resident."
"The homes and other premises of Hong Kong residents shall be inviolable. Arbitrary or unlawful search of, or intrusion into, a resident's home or other premises shall be prohibited."
8,000 students live on the CUHK campus, so previous judges have ruled that campuses count as "premises of Hong Kong residents."
Here's a previous situation at HKU where the president vowed not to let police on campus without a lawful warrant:
LINK
Also, warrants are expected in any search and seizure in Hong Kong, as this ruling indicates:
LINK
It's worth mentioning that these Articles under the Basic Law even would have applied to me when I lived in Hong Kong. Even though I was a US Citizen, I had a Hong Kong ID and was a "Hong Kong resident."
This post was edited on 11/12/19 at 9:22 am
Posted on 11/12/19 at 9:23 am to shel311
quote:
Yea, i'm trying to be nice and figure out what I missed or if that poster just whiffed big time.
I think the poster whiffed. There seems some rationalization about the protestors are mucking up the works so then the Chinese are coming in to straighten it out. But we all know the Chinese are wanting to do more than that. You know those bastads would run over the protestors with tanks if they think they won't be seen.
Posted on 11/12/19 at 9:23 am to MikeyFL
quote:
Also, warrants are expected in any search and seizure in Hong Kong, as this ruling indicates:
Except you missed this part...
quote:
The court ruled partly in Sham’s favour as Mr Justice Thomas Au Hing-cheung found the ordinance only empowers a search in “exigent circumstances”.
Being in America and seeing how exigent circumstances are frequently abused by cops, no surprise it doesn't work there either.
quote:
Here's a previous situation at HKU where the president vowed not to let police on campus without a lawful warrant:
Promises made... and not kept
Posted on 11/12/19 at 9:28 am to MikeyFL
Id add @baldingsworld to the proceedings as well. Dude has one of the most legit perspectives on the Hong Kong issue and is a great follow.
Posted on 11/12/19 at 9:29 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
There's a difference between the students here fighting for basic human rights against a totalitarian government and the idiot protesters here blocking a road for no real reason besides Orange Man Bad.
My initial post was largely tongue in cheek. I fully support Hong Kong residents protesting a totalitarian government.
However, there are facts that many do not know:
1) The extradition bill they are protesting was introduced in April 2019
2) The proposed bill was suspended within weeks due to the protest
3) Residents understandably wanted the proposed bill dismissed entirely so they continued protesting
4) The Bill was completely dismissed in September but protestors now say that is too little too late.
The Chinese government and Hong Kong police have absolutely been brutal and must be held accountable. However, posters responded to my post asking if the protestors actually blocked roads obviously don’t know:
1) In July, protestors stormed parliament
2) In October - after Bill was eliminated - masked protestors fought Hong Kong officers with improvised Molotov cocktails, poles and random projectiles. A protestor was shot in response.
3) In November, a local pro-Beijing lawmaker was stabbed in the street by a protestor.
4) Recently, protestors set a citizen on fire after a protestor was shot by police while trying to set up a road block.
So, while I absolutely support protesting the Chinese government, any informed person cannot blindly support the protestors’ methods or consider them innocent in the escalation.
Posted on 11/12/19 at 9:33 am to shel311
quote:
Yea, i'm trying to be nice and figure out what I missed or if that poster just whiffed big time.
I replied with explanation. 
Posted on 11/12/19 at 9:34 am to LSUBoo
quote:
You know that's just copied from Lebron James talking about Hong Kong, right?
I have been on deployment for the last 156 days. I'm on the ship ride home now. Shows you how much I have missed.
Posted on 11/12/19 at 9:42 am to LSUGrrrl
quote:
The Chinese government and Hong Kong police have absolutely been brutal and must be held accountable. However, posters responded to my post asking if the protestors actually blocked roads obviously don’t know:
1) In July, protestors stormed parliament
2) In October - after Bill was eliminated - masked protestors fought Hong Kong officers with improvised Molotov cocktails, poles and random projectiles. A protestor was shot in response.
3) In November, a local pro-Beijing lawmaker was stabbed in the street by a protestor.
4) Recently, protestors set a citizen on fire after a protestor was shot by police while trying to set up a road block.
To be fair, one issue you should also mention is the fact that a fair share of the "violent" protestors are also agents working for the Chinese government. The Chinese press is quite busy making the protests seem far more violent than they are. China also would love to see the protests turn as violent as possible so that they have a pretext to declare martial law. The only thing stopping that is the freedom Hong Kongers have to film events as they occur and immediately upload them to their unfiltered internet.
I should mention that the "agents" are spotted quite easily because they can't speak Cantonese.
I was just in Hong Kong for most of October. Far more than 99% of the protesters are completely non-violent, and I would defy you to find a population like that nearly anywhere else in the world.
This post was edited on 11/12/19 at 9:54 am
Posted on 11/12/19 at 9:47 am to MoarKilometers
quote:
Being in America and seeing how exigent circumstances are frequently abused by cops, no surprise it doesn't work there either.
It works in Hong Kong. At least it did until the past few years, when China started to undermine Hong Kong's public institutions.
In short, Hong Kongers have become used to Western laws and rights. They don't seem ready to give them up without a fight.
Posted on 11/12/19 at 9:49 am to MikeyFL
Bet Hong Kong wishes they were still a British colony right about now
Posted on 11/12/19 at 9:51 am to deltaland
quote:
Bet Hong Kong wishes they were still a British colony right about now
Their worst fears have been realized. HKers didn´t want the hand over. Then again, nearly all of these people weren´t alive when the agreement was signed.
Posted on 11/12/19 at 9:53 am to PaperPaintball92
Hope you get home to your family soon. Welcome home!
Posted on 11/12/19 at 9:55 am to MikeyFL
quote:
To be fair, one issue you should also mention is the fact that a fair share of the "violent" protestors are also agents working for Chinese. The Chinese press is quite busy making the protests seem far more violent than they are. China also would love to see the protests turn as violent as possible so that they have a pretext to declare martial law.
Fair point that should be included but hard to substantiate considering the lack of hard evidence and media coverage.
Again, I fully support the Hong Kong protestors but let’s not pretend these same posters here wouldn’t be calling for their heads if masked protestors were reported to do these things in Seattle.
Posted on 11/12/19 at 10:04 am to X123F45
quote:They already have, numerous times.
China is going to make the mistake of all totalitarian regimes.
They are going to attack innocent people publicly.
You think homeboy standing in front of the tank lived?
Posted on 11/12/19 at 10:06 am to LSUGrrrl
quote:
Fair point that should be included but hard to substantiate considering the lack of hard evidence and media coverage.
Well, as I said, it's actually been fairly easy to substantiate because many of the violent protesters can't speak the local language (Cantonese). But they do respond to Mandarin.
And I imagine that most people would support protesters if a police unit entered the LSU campus, marched into the dorms, and started arresting students without warrants.
If the arrested students were Trump supporters, some of the baws on this website might grab their weapons.
This post was edited on 11/12/19 at 10:10 am
Posted on 11/12/19 at 10:36 am to MikeyFL
quote:
Well, as I said, it's actually been fairly easy to substantiate because many of the violent protesters can't speak the local language (Cantonese). But they do respond to Mandarin.
Well, not many here have witnessed this or read local media like you have. The whole point of my post is how the average poster is likely unaware of key events in Hong Kong. If they aren’t aware of what actually being reported internationally, how the hell would they know that the way to tell a plant from true protestor is nuance of local dialect?
And if antifa attempted to block access to LSU campus and set a student on fire when they were denied this board would mount a Calvary to personally and permanently evict them.
More accurately, if OT posters mistakenly believed protestors were antifa they would mount an offensive to permanently eliminate them from campus and worry about nuance later.
Posted on 11/12/19 at 10:40 am to LSUGrrrl
quote:
And if antifa attempted to block access to LSU campus and set a student on fire when they were denied this board would mount a Calvary to personally and permanently evict them.
More accurately, if OT posters mistakenly believed protestors were antifa they would mount an offensive to permanently eliminate them from campus and worry about nuance later.
That's not an equivalent scenario, however. The protesters were almost completely non-violent from 2014-2018. They held the largest non-violent demonstrations the world has ever seen. Things have deteriorated to such a degree that the non-violent protesters sympathize with the violent minority now.
And the most recent violence has, in virtually every case, been a response to police brutality. It's all documented by the free press that remains in Hong Kong.
The people I'm in touch with in Hong Kong currently are telling me that the police are going back soon with greater force. That will tell you something about their true intentions.
This post was edited on 11/12/19 at 10:42 am
Posted on 11/12/19 at 10:43 am to MikeyFL
quote:
It's all documented by the free press that remains in Hong Kong.
And is widely ready by the OT
You seem to be purposely missing the issue of availability and interest in local reporting no matter how accurate among the average OT poster.
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