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Message
re: Southern Law School: Benefit to the State or a Mediocre Institution That Harms LA?
Posted on 1/7/19 at 9:27 am to KiwiHead
Posted on 1/7/19 at 9:27 am to KiwiHead
quote:
The Bar Exam in Louisiana is not any easier tan the Bar Exam in: Tennessee, Mississippi, Texas, New York or at least a dozen other states...probably more
The problem with the Louisiana bar exam is that it caters to in-state, Civil law students. They are at a tremendous advantage. To counter, depending on their course of study, they are at a disadvantage if they sit for an out-of-state, Common law/MBE bar exam.
I believe Louisiana is still the longest - 3 days, all essays. No MBE, MPT, UBE.
California is often cited as the hardest. Louisiana usually is ranked second. I'm not too sure how they drum up the figures (passage rates, number of takers, number of attempts, etc). New York is always up there too.
Tennessee used to have the most "fair game" testable portions for their essay portion. My buddy that graduated from Memphis law said it was something crazy (e.g. 33 fair game testable subjects for just a mere 9 essays). Due to very low passage rates (in the 30 and 40% I believe), they are supposedly switching over to the UBE.
ETA: Doesn't Ole Miss and Mississippi College offer Civil Law degrees or Civil law certifications?
This post was edited on 1/7/19 at 9:55 am
4
Posted on 1/7/19 at 9:31 am to Longstreet
I had an attorney that went to Southern, he’s one of the better defense attorneys in the state but had some extracurricular activities that got him into some hot water.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 9:50 am to LSUbase13
I don't see how that can change since Louisiana has a civil law regime.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 9:54 am to NOLA Tiger
quote:
I don't see how that can change since Louisiana has a civil law regime.
You don't see how what can change?
Posted on 1/7/19 at 9:57 am to LSUbase13
quote:
The problem with the Louisiana bar exam is that it caters to in-state, Civil law students. They are at a tremendous advantage.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 10:00 am to NOLA Tiger
quote:
NOLA Tiger
Ah. Yes, I only made that point in regards to the difficulty of the exam. As previously mentioned, it is often cited as one of the hardest. If you factor in-state statistics (subtract Southern if you'd like), is it really any harder than any of the other state's exam? What's the passage rate just looking at Tulane, LSU, and Loyola statistics? 70%
I'm sure the out-of-state figures really drive the overall passage rate down.
This post was edited on 1/7/19 at 10:03 am
Posted on 1/7/19 at 10:09 am to LSUbase13
quote:
The problem with the Louisiana bar exam is that it caters to in-state, Civil law students. They are at a tremendous advantage. To counter, depending on their course of study, they are at a disadvantage if they sit for an out-of-state, Common law/MBE bar exam.
Do you not think that the concepts are similar enough to allow a person to fairly easily get ready for an exam based on civil or common law?
quote:
I believe Louisiana is still the longest - 3 days, all essays. No MBE, MPT, UBE.
I think LA started using some multiple choice several years ago.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 10:10 am to LSUbase13
I would guess my comment about it not changing would also apply to your counter of civil law students siting for common law exams as well. I don't see it as a problem but a result of students focused on one tradition over the other.
I don't know if the Louisiana bar exam is any harder than others (for reference, I've only taken the Louisiana bar exam). It doesn't seem to be apples to apples. More like training to run different distances?
I don't know if the Louisiana bar exam is any harder than others (for reference, I've only taken the Louisiana bar exam). It doesn't seem to be apples to apples. More like training to run different distances?
Posted on 1/7/19 at 10:15 am to rowbear1922
quote:
Tulane is also the only school in the state that teaches common law.
No, Loyola teaches common law as well.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 10:17 am to Longstreet
I've known lots of people who went to Southern Law. I've never heard any complaints about the education, only the administrative side of things.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 10:27 am to TSLG
I think they are similar enough. Based on my conversations with people that have taken the Louisiana Bar after coming here from common law traditions, terminology conversion and property law are the biggest issues.
Otherwise, over the past few decades, Louisiana has codified many of the laws found in other states (e.g. Arbitration Act, UCC). Interstate commerce has helped align Louisiana laws with other states as much as anything. Although I do enjoy the perception that we are foreign land controlled by the Napoleonic Code.
Otherwise, over the past few decades, Louisiana has codified many of the laws found in other states (e.g. Arbitration Act, UCC). Interstate commerce has helped align Louisiana laws with other states as much as anything. Although I do enjoy the perception that we are foreign land controlled by the Napoleonic Code.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 10:28 am to LSUbase13
quote:
I believe Louisiana is still the longest - 3 days, all essays. No MBE, MPT, UBE.
Yep. Your mind is warped for about a week after taking it.
quote:
Tennessee
I studied for about 3 weeks before taking it in 2001 passed on the first try
None of them are cake walks. For me the hardest was Maryland.....I did not feel confident after I took the Bar Exam there. The essay questions entailed some major detail
Posted on 1/7/19 at 10:29 am to MLCLyons
quote:
I've known lots of people who went to Southern Law. I've never heard any complaints about the education, only the administrative side of things.
You will get a good legal education at SULC. No one is allowed to get by writing poorly. I was held to similar standards as LSU. the admin at SULC is horrendous. No one knows what in the hell they are doing. Registering for classes was horrible, student loan and payment process was awful.
The bar exam was one of the hardest things I've ever done. If you put the work in, you will pass, regardless of what school you went to.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 10:35 am to LSUbase13
quote:
The problem with the Louisiana bar exam is that it caters to in-state, Civil law students. They are at a tremendous advantage. To counter, depending on their course of study, they are at a disadvantage if they sit for an out-of-state, Common law/MBE bar exam.
It makes sense since it's a civil law state. Though the admissions person at LSU Law told me they offer both civil law and common law courses, so I don't think LSU Law grads are disadvantaged much in another state's bar. They will be in employment in legal markets like NYC and Los Angeles though, since you'll be up against T14 grads and the regional schools that have better networking there.
quote:
I believe Louisiana is still the longest - 3 days, all essays. No MBE, MPT, UBE.
California is also 3 days.
quote:
California is often cited as the hardest.
It is.
quote:
New York is always up there too.
Not anymore. New York is now a UBE state. You can take the bar in Alabama and port the score over now if you wanted.
quote:
ETA: Doesn't Ole Miss and Mississippi College offer Civil Law degrees or Civil law certifications?
Mississippi College does (I remember getting that crap spammed to my LSU email). Even if I wanted to practice in Louisiana, no fricking way I'd go to that school.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 10:39 am to MLCLyons
quote:
I've known lots of people who went to Southern Law. I've never heard any complaints about the education, only the administrative side of things.
This. I've lived it. There are many more SULC attorneys on this site that haven't/won't comment, but will echo this comment.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 10:44 am to TSLG
quote:
Do you not think that the concepts are similar enough to allow a person to fairly easily get ready for an exam based on civil or common law?
I honestly have no clue. I didn't go to school in Louisiana.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 11:02 am to MLCLyons
quote:
I've never heard any complaints about the education, only the administrative side of things.
The administration over there was horrible. Financial Aid was such a pain in the arse.
The faculty was good and certainly prepared me for the bar.
Southern will always have a low bar passage rate because it takes chances on people that have no business being in law school. Trust me, you don't want SULC to have a higher bar passage rate than around 50%
SULC was obviously not my first choice but it offers a chance to people who want to practice law that got wait-listed by LSU and couldnt afford/didnt want to borrow the amount of money that Loyola costs.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 11:07 am to LSUbase13
Neither did Frank Abagnale
Posted on 1/7/19 at 11:11 am to LSUbase13
New Orleans is inundated with out of state lawyers. The civil law difference seems overblown unless you flat out just don’t prepare. OTOH, LSU sends a few dozen kids to Texas every year who do fine on that bar exam.
Posted on 1/8/19 at 9:32 am to theliontamer
quote:
92% passage rate for first time takers @ LSU. I mean, c'mon, I think we can make it a little more challenging.
So, you take some of the most intelligent individuals in the state who are also among some of the best students in the state, have them complete four year degrees, then educate them on a single subject for three more years, then push them towards an intensive program to study specifically for the exam they are about to take. They spend the last three months before the exam studying 8+ hours a day like it's their job, because if they don't pass said exam, it is illegal for them to do the job they have spent their entire adult lives working towards doing.
Keeping in mind that the Bar is supposed to be a "minimum competency" exam, exactly how many of those people described above do you think should be failing every year?
Now, if you want to break off specialties that have their own exam, e.g. patent law, that's fine. But the initial barrier to enter the profession is already plenty high enough. And I say that as someone who passed on his first attempt.
This post was edited on 1/8/19 at 9:32 am
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