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Message
re: Southern Baptist Convention: IVF is a sin
Posted on 6/13/24 at 1:03 pm to SneezyBeltranIsHere
Posted on 6/13/24 at 1:03 pm to SneezyBeltranIsHere
quote:Love God, love neighbor (including enemies). Yep, pretty immoral.
If there was a person that actually followed those books to the letter, that would be the most immoral person you had ever met, and it wouldn't be close.
0
Posted on 6/13/24 at 1:05 pm to chRxis
quote:
again, if the human species didn't adhere, at least in part, to some sort of moral, ethical standard, we would have died out as a species
quote:You're thinking too small. A universal law is universal. It predates Christianity and it applies to Buddhist. It's accessible outside of Christianity.
and you should enlighten Buddhist to this fact
This post was edited on 6/13/24 at 1:05 pm
Posted on 6/13/24 at 1:10 pm to CatholicLSUDude
quote:
"Good" only means something if it's defined as something that aligns with God's will. One can do something good without religion. In other words, a non-religious person can absolutely do something that aligns with God's will even if they don't even believe in God.
In my view, It is more likely Moses lied about the Ten Commandments coming from god cause it is easier to subject his people to that rule of law if it came from god instead of Moses. Even if his people were cyclical to Moses' story they would agree that they don't want to be stolen from or murdered nor would they want to murder or steal.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 1:12 pm to Jim Rockford
Kinda being a smartass here but, if an IVF clinic were on fire and the roof about to collapse would we expect firemen to risk their life to save an embryo?
Posted on 6/13/24 at 1:15 pm to North Dallas Tiger
It is a sin and against the Laws of Nature and the Sacred Covenant.
Nothing more fricked up than a religious zealot.
Nothing more fricked up than a religious zealot.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 1:16 pm to csgau
quote:A woke zealot.
Nothing more fricked up than a religious zealot.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 1:19 pm to bigjoe1
quote:
Kinda being a smartass here but, if an IVF clinic were on fire and the roof about to collapse would we expect firemen to risk their life to save an embryo?
I’ve seen a few episodes of Chicago Fire, seems if roof collapse is imminent they won’t do this for fully developed humans.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 1:21 pm to adavis
quote:
here are so many things that are “not natural” by God’s original design. But we use them daily. Things as simple as aluminum, plastic, and the electronics used to produce the phone or computer you used to post your criticism of unnatural things. Things like pasteurization, vaccines, and advancements in medicine that have increased our average lifespan by 30+ years. Things like radiation, chemotherapy, and dialysis. If you choose not to pursue those things, that’s your personal decision. So if you disagree with IVF, for whatever reasons you might have, that’s your personal right to avoid them. But when you use your personal beliefs to throw a blanket over those who have differing opinions, you lose people who could further your ministry. You can’t interpret the grey as absolutes. A
Generally agree with your post, but I had to point out that if we were making a top 5 list of the most natural things, radiation would be on it, sunlight is radiation.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 1:42 pm to Dire Wolf
quote:
In my view, It is more likely Moses lied about the Ten Commandments coming from god cause it is easier to subject his people to that rule of law if it came from god instead of Moses.
Plot twist. Moses wasn’t a real person.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 1:44 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:Interesting.
Plot twist. Moses wasn’t a real person.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 2:43 pm to North Dallas Tiger
Posted on 6/13/24 at 3:12 pm to dgnx6
quote:and the people who are against IVF would say that hood rat needs to carry every one of those little shite stains to term and produce more little thugs
Exactly. I know plenty of people that had to go this route. Meanwhile the chick with 3 baby daddies and in food stamps gets pregnant every time she has sex.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 3:39 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
Curiosity caused me to search "IVF" posts on Facebook. I was surprised just how many people on my friends list have went through it. Each and every one of them thanked God that it worked. I live in West TN which is heavily Southern Baptist. SBC needs to be real careful how hard they push this.
We shouldn't forget that the people that made this decision are just that, people.
If any of you have successfully went through IVF, I thank God that you have the family that you have always wanted.
We shouldn't forget that the people that made this decision are just that, people.
If any of you have successfully went through IVF, I thank God that you have the family that you have always wanted.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 3:47 pm to Rendlo
quote:
SBC needs to be real careful how hard they push this.
Pretty much how I feel. People willing to go through IVF are proably going too be amazing parents and raise wonderful children.
With membership falling to 1950's level can't see how this stance is going to encourage a lot of women to become members.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 3:56 pm to bigjoe1
quote:
Pretty much how I feel. People willing to go through IVF are proably going too be amazing parents and raise wonderful children.
With membership falling to 1950's level can't see how this stance is going to encourage a lot of women to become members.
Correct. My family and I are a part of a non-denomination church and the teachings really have pushed me closer to God. I've also read my bible more this year than ever.
I grew up SBC and I don't have any horror stories that pushed me away or anything.. I just kinda floated away.
At the end of the day, SBC is a HUGE organization. However, according to Wikipedia numbers, there has been a steady decline since 2005. There's been roughly 20% drop.
I'm not a theologian but I haven't read anything in that bible that prohibits this. I also haven't read a convincing argument in this thread.
There's another "church" war that happened, and the original church is bordering bankruptcy. The United Methodist Church is crumbling very quickly because they proposed to allow LGBTQ clergy and same sex marriage. They ruled based on human law, not God's. Love but not affirm.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 4:01 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
and the people who are against IVF would say that hood rat needs to carry every one of those little shite stains to term and produce more little thugs
I think both the people using IVF and those opposing it probably don’t refer to children as shite stains. Both seem to have respect for and a desire to nurture human life, they seem to disagree on where it starts to some extent.
This post was edited on 6/13/24 at 4:03 pm
Posted on 6/13/24 at 4:05 pm to Dawgfanman
quote:
I think both the people using IVF and those opposing it probably don’t refer to children as shite stains. Both seem to have respect for and a desire to nurture human life, they seem to disagree on where it starts to some extent.
While I agree with you, I get where OP was coming from. The same folks against IVF for religious reasons seem to be the same folks that get mad when the mom of 6 needs government support.
Like someone said earlier, a couple going to the extent of IVF are more than likely going to be wonderful caring parents.
This post was edited on 6/13/24 at 4:06 pm
Posted on 6/13/24 at 4:12 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
TL;DR Baptists to Pope: Hold my (non alcoholic) beer
The Catholic Church has always condemned IVF as a violation of human ethics.
It treats the embryos as commodities, not as the people they are.
Hope this helps.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 4:19 pm to Rendlo
quote:
Like someone said earlier, a couple going to the extent of IVF are more than likely going to be wonderful caring parents.
I do not think the SBC or Catholic concern here has anything to do with their parenting. It’s the procedure itself, which does, despite what anyone in this thread said, result in the destruction of tens if not hundreds of thousands of embryos each year. Most of them simply thrown in the waste. These are viewed by some as human lives, likely even those seeking IVF.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 4:40 pm to Thorny
quote:
The Catholic Church has always condemned IVF as a violation of human ethics.
The Catholic Church has not had a great history with human ethics.
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