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Started By
Message
re: Solar Panels - Yay or Nay
Posted on 7/14/23 at 2:49 pm to billjamin
Posted on 7/14/23 at 2:49 pm to billjamin
.
Eat a dick.
quote:
quote:Then you find out soar panels only last about 25 years
This is one of the many ways i know you have no clue what you're talking about. Please stop giving advice about something you know nothing about.
Eat a dick.
3
Posted on 7/14/23 at 2:51 pm to LoneStarRanger
quote:
Don’t try selling your home if you still owe money on them. Otherwise you’re gonna have to pay them off
I have friends that were the beneficiary of this. The sellers did not disclose they were still paying for the solar panels until the title company brought it up. The seller had to eat $45k from the sales proceeds to pay off the solar panels.
Also, the solar panel contract the sellers paid for includes removal and reinstall at no charge for roof replacement.
Another friend self install solar panels on his barndominium. Not that difficult. It's basically an erector set with plug ins. The connection to the panel box is tricky and not advisable if you are not knowledgeable. He paid about $16k diy for 30 panel set up.
This post was edited on 7/14/23 at 2:56 pm
Posted on 7/14/23 at 2:52 pm to C
quote:
Without govt subsidies it’s a loser in most of the USA as that Infograph shows.
People really should ignore that map. Irradiance is to site specific to make any decision without an Aurora, Suneye or something similar. A real solar setup isn't just some bros that come out and throw some panels up on the roof. They're designed a power plant for that homes needs with consideration for that homes specific energy resource factor.
It misleads people into thinking that TSRF is the only thing that matters. There are enough solar offerings that charge based on kWh rather than kWp so any efficiency loss from a lower TSRF is mitigated.
Posted on 7/14/23 at 2:52 pm to billjamin
quote:quote:
Then you find out soar panels only last about 25 years
This is one of the many ways i know you have no clue what you're talking about.
uh, what?
* most residential solar panels should operate for 25 years before degradation (or reduced energy production) is noticeable.
* solar inverters generally last 10 to 15 years.
* Tier One manufacturers have higher standards, but their solar panels often have a higher output after 25 years in comparison to Tier Two or Tier Three panels. The degradation rate for Tier One solar panels is 0.30% annually compared to 0.50% for Tier Two and 0.80% for Tier Three. The catch is that Tier One panels generally cost 10% to 30% upfront.
* recent reports from NIST highlight a trend of panels failing decades before expected. For some models, there has been a spike in the number of cracked backsheets.
* if left outside for long enough, any plastic-based backsheet will start to fall apart. Some plastics deteriorate much more rapidly than others. “In the 2010 to 2012 timeframe, many modules were deployed containing polyamide-based backsheets, which presented dramatic cracking failure in as little as four years despite meeting standard requirements".
* degradation rate of solar panels has improved for the better during recent years. If you have an older model, it may have degraded faster than current industry standards.
* exposure to extreme weather, such as hail, high temperatures, and high winds, will degrade your panels faster. Prolonged exposure to extreme heat reduces a solar panel’s efficiency, compromising the capabilities of your energy system.
* Florida is one of the best states to live in if you want to use solar energy. Most residential solar panels in Florida last around 25 to 30 years
Posted on 7/14/23 at 2:53 pm to LSUFreek
quote:
Eat a dick.
Thats the economic useful life dipshit. You don't know what the frick you're talking about.
Posted on 7/14/23 at 2:55 pm to LSUFreek
quote:If companies are willing to warranty a product for 25 years, you think it's only going to last that long? Do you replace everything when the warranty is up, or do you typically keep using it well after that time?
LSUFreek
And BTW you are pitting your misinterpretation of a google search against someone who works in the industry and who has access to a ton of real world data. In short, you are a dumbass.
Posted on 7/14/23 at 2:55 pm to RobbBobb
quote:
uh, what?
They last much longer. They degrade, but they don't crap out. Anyone who doesn't understand that nuance or have the ability to discuss it should shut the frick up and stop giving people advice.
ETA
quote:
* most residential solar panels should operate for 25 years before degradation (or reduced energy production) is noticeable.
We use 25 years as an economic useful life. They can just sit there and keep cranking our free ROI+ power.
quote:
* solar inverters generally last 10 to 15 years.
Blended across mid and top tier yes. Stick to SolarEdge or Enphase and you'l probably be fine. I could also make a recommendation on how many $/kWp/Year to save to create a mini O&M fund.
quote:
* Tier One manufacturers have higher standards, but their solar panels often have a higher output after 25 years in comparison to Tier Two or Tier Three panels. The degradation rate for Tier One solar panels is 0.30% annually compared to 0.50% for Tier Two and 0.80% for Tier Three. The catch is that Tier One panels generally cost 10% to 30% upfront.
I disagree with those deg numbers and argue with NREL about them a lot but it's their published numbers and Dr Jordan is irritating to deal with. Also, only buy tier 1.
quote:This really only applies to old shite. Modern tier 1 modules are lightyears ahead of those.
* recent reports from NIST highlight a trend of panels failing decades before expected. For some models, there has been a spike in the number of cracked backsheets.
* if left outside for long enough, any plastic-based backsheet will start to fall apart. Some plastics deteriorate much more rapidly than others. “In the 2010 to 2012 timeframe, many modules were deployed containing polyamide-based backsheets, which presented dramatic cracking failure in as little as four years despite meeting standard requirements".
* degradation rate of solar panels has improved for the better during recent years. If you have an older model, it may have degraded faster than current industry standards.
* exposure to extreme weather, such as hail, high temperatures, and high winds, will degrade your panels faster. Prolonged exposure to extreme heat reduces a solar panel’s efficiency, compromising the capabilities of your energy system.
quote:
* Florida is one of the best states to live in if you want to use solar energy. Most residential solar panels in Florida last around 25 to 30 years
Agreed. Fl is solid.
This post was edited on 7/14/23 at 3:07 pm
Posted on 7/14/23 at 2:57 pm to Quatrepot
quote:
What I want to know is what you do when you have to re-shingle the roof.
You call the customer service # and they promptly come out and uninstall all their panels and they schedule the reinstall with the roofer. All free of charge of course.
Posted on 7/14/23 at 2:57 pm to C
If going solar, keep in mind a few things.
Its not so much a scaling back, but a change in net rate. Prior to 2019, you could get a 1 for 1 credit. Now, its includes avoided costs. So, there is a line item in all bills for maintenance of poles, transformers, hardware, thats built into rates. By removing this from the net rate, you are still paying this line. Your discount is coming from not using generation fuel.
So yes, size to use what you generate. Your payback on generated is not as cost effective.
Keep in mind that even the best solar panels are 23% efficient. If they are giving you a wattage capacity, be sure they are clear as to which rating they are giving you.
Your inverter needs utility power to operate. Your panels will not power your home in a power loss situation unless you have backup generation or battery storage.
Use reputable solar companies and installers. People are getting scammed. Are the panels themselves a scam, no. Usually, its the installers or solar companies. Make sure they contact your utility company and set up a net rate contract with them. Also, be sure they know the utility company's specifications for allowing a solar connection to their grid. The utility does not have to put your meter in even if you pass inspection.
quote:
energy companies are scaling back buybacks greatly so you shouldn’t over size for what you generally use during the day. Ideally you use everything you generate
Its not so much a scaling back, but a change in net rate. Prior to 2019, you could get a 1 for 1 credit. Now, its includes avoided costs. So, there is a line item in all bills for maintenance of poles, transformers, hardware, thats built into rates. By removing this from the net rate, you are still paying this line. Your discount is coming from not using generation fuel.
So yes, size to use what you generate. Your payback on generated is not as cost effective.
Keep in mind that even the best solar panels are 23% efficient. If they are giving you a wattage capacity, be sure they are clear as to which rating they are giving you.
Your inverter needs utility power to operate. Your panels will not power your home in a power loss situation unless you have backup generation or battery storage.
Use reputable solar companies and installers. People are getting scammed. Are the panels themselves a scam, no. Usually, its the installers or solar companies. Make sure they contact your utility company and set up a net rate contract with them. Also, be sure they know the utility company's specifications for allowing a solar connection to their grid. The utility does not have to put your meter in even if you pass inspection.
Posted on 7/14/23 at 3:05 pm to SaintEB
quote:
Usually, its the installers or solar companies
This all day. There are some awful companies in the space. But there are really good ones too.
Posted on 7/14/23 at 3:17 pm to GeauxGutsy
quote:
You call the customer service # and they promptly come out and uninstall all their panels and they schedule the reinstall with the roofer. All free of charge of course.
People really overcomplicate this part. Also, you're solar installer probably has a pretty good relationship with a roofer and if you like them can sometimes get you hooked up.
Posted on 7/14/23 at 3:22 pm to billjamin
quote:
This really only applies to old shite
But thats the real problem. We havent hit that magic 25 year cycle on most installed systems. So we really dont know
I have family in Florida that has an older system. They had to replace the roof prior to covid. They then found out that a significant number of panels needed replacing as they were being reinstalled
And they hadnt even made it to 25 years
Posted on 7/14/23 at 3:25 pm to billjamin
quote:
I'm happy to answer any legitimate questions about residential solar. I've financed and continue to monitor portfolios with hundreds of thousands of US resi systems.
Tell me about Tesla solar roofs
Posted on 7/14/23 at 3:29 pm to RobbBobb
quote:
But thats the real problem. We havent hit that magic 25 year cycle on most installed systems. So we really dont know
We do HALT testing now, which is close but not 100% reality. But we do have a ton of failure mode data on what was making those panels break and everyones comfortable enough to do 25 year warranties with degradation guarantees and many of the asset managers put production guarantees in the contracts too.
That's putting your money where your mouth is, this thing will produce or I'll pay you.
quote:Def a problem for older systems. New micro or MLPA will tell you in the app if you have not just a module go down, but a cell or even an underperforming cell. System operations has really moved a lot in the past few years.
I have family in Florida that has an older system. They had to replace the roof prior to covid. They then found out that a significant number of panels needed replacing as they were being reinstalled
quote:They were early adopters honestly. But people have to do that for the tech to advance and it has a lot, especially in the past 5 years. We used to pull production from Itron can meters. Now i have an API to the inverter and i'm hitting that 100 times a day to pull telemetry and run that through tools to ID problems.
And they hadn't even made it to 25 years
Posted on 7/14/23 at 3:32 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Tell me about Tesla solar roofs
They're fricking amazing. But almost impossible to get and expensive. It's a 100% always negative ROI, and i really don't like talking in absolutes, but its one of the few thats just true no matter how you beat it up. They're so hard to get that I can't even get them and I've help finance billions of dollars in Tesla assets and gotten a personal tour by Elon at Gigafactory.
ETA Maybe interesting story on them. I qualified them for a bunch of funds about 18 months ago. Basically getting the independent engineering done and getting in on the approved vendor list for a bunch of the big solar funds. I don't know of 1 single time its been used because everyone who is getting them is rich enough to pay cash. I don't believe a single install has been financed yet.
This post was edited on 7/14/23 at 3:41 pm
Posted on 7/14/23 at 4:09 pm to billjamin
quote:
Finally, we recently (yesterday) started using Tesla's Energy company. They buy electricity on the open market during off peak hours and then sell it during peak times. We are hoping to make a few bucks from this as well.
Is this their VPP program?
Not sure. It's Tesla Energy Ventures.
Posted on 7/14/23 at 4:10 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Why are people forced to put them on the roof?
They aren't.
quote:
If I have a giant yard, why can I not have them in a non-trafficked area?
You can.
You should inform the salesmen that call me, incessantly, and beat on my door, with the NO SOLICITING sign 3 times a week. They all tell me that "no, it has to be on the roof."
Posted on 7/14/23 at 4:14 pm to Hangit
quote:
You should inform the salesmen that call me, incessantly, and beat on my door, with the NO SOLICITING sign 3 times a week. They all tell me that "no, it has to be on the roof."
Those guys are usually idiots. They do this when they aren’t selling used cars. They also don’t like ground mounts because the commission is usually lower because the install is more expensive and all they care about is fricking you for the highest commission they can get.
You should see what happens when they show up at my house. Or even worse when they work for a company that I know.
This post was edited on 7/14/23 at 4:33 pm
Posted on 7/14/23 at 4:52 pm to Slingscode
What was your expenditure all in?
Monthly payment on the panels and wall ?
Monthly payment on the panels and wall ?
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