re: So Mitch (and other offended libs) want to remove Davis/Lee memorials, yet Crazy Horse ...

You like the imagery?
I thought it apt.

It really is a shame how people enter into a deal with the devil that in reality only takes from them the core values that successful people have.

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You do understand that the Native Americans were here first and we stole the better part of an entire continent from them, don't you?

You do understand that framing a response in this way is obnoxious, don't you?
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No, I really don't. European colonists started fricking the locals from the get go. One of the first things the Mayflower colonists did was dig up and steal corn stored by the indigenous Cape Cod tribe.

Squanto helped them survive. Fed them, interpreted for them, taught them how to farm in the local climate. To express their gratitude, he was kidnapped and hauled back to Europe as a slave and/or a circus act.

This myth that the "white man" is some devil dog that was doing anything different than every other people since the dawn of time is pure and utter idiocy.
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At no point did I say European-Americans were doing anything different than any other conquering tribe since the the dawn of time. Manifest Destiny ... I get it. I said we fricked the Indians. Maybe not like Hitler fricked the Jews, but we wiped their asses out in a fairly efficient manner.

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White Roach

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Can you fricking learn to quote correctly?

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It's quite an impressive monument, i saw it under construction, up in the Dakota, YES hypocrites

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It's still under construction. In fact, it's been "under construction since the late 1940's. At the rate they're going it will erode away before it's done.

Isn't it privately funded by a family?

I thought it was their land or leased from the government

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White Roach


Can you fricking learn to quote correctly?
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Believe me, if I could, I would. I typically post off of my phone and I just can't get it to work for me.

The good news is that I'm not the only one who does it this way, and more importantly, you, and I presume others, recognize that I'm quoting a previous post. It doesn't seem like that large of a problem to me. I hope you're able to adjust and adapt to my shortcomings.

Are you really going to insist that this was a singularly American or even Western occurrence?
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At no point did I insist that this behavior was strictly limited to Americans or Westerners. I was just trying to point out that if you look at the situation objectively, we fricked the Indians.

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You think Indian tribes didn't renege on deals?
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Nor did I say Indians never reneged on deals. Indian giver, right?
But the reality is that a variety of tribes were given reservation lands by treaty, only to lose those lands and get relocated to less desirable lands at whim of the government and an expanding population.

There are plenty of examples of Indians literally "going off the reservation", but the US government reneged on far more treaties than the Indians ever did.

We fricked the Indians. They deserve their casinos and tax free gas.

It is hypocrisy and a slippery slope with a message that is the epitome of inconsistency. The monument bashers are setting a ridiculously high bar for what/who they think should be remembered. I say remembered because it doesn't always have to be universally honored. They are basically sending this message:

Prior to any military conflict, If you have any reservations about how the defense of your homeland may be viewed by history, you should immediately lay down your weapon, denounce your country or better yet, join your enemy. While making this decision, don't just think of the short term or even of your family as you will be judged for an eternity. And remember, nothing short of perfection will stand the test of time.

That's kind of my point! As far as the nomadic Plains Indian tribes go, those frickers were happy as clams to chase buffalo, kill their neighboring tribes and eat a dog when times were hard. They had no interest in becoming dirt farmers.

The ones we couldn't kill, we ran relentlessly until they surrendered. Then we parked them on a reservation and gave them a stipend. You can call it the original welfare program, but if they'd sold their land, what would it have been worth?

I'm not saying the USA isn't better off with the Indians "civilized" and kept on their reservations, I'm just saying we fricked them. It's indisputable.