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Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:26 am to FightingTigers138
quote:
Attempted second degree murder is an extension of aggravated assault. Not the same as murder. You don't know exact intent. Unless you have evidence of it planned. Then its 1st degree, as well as a life sentence.
That's not the point I'm contended on. If you have two of the exact same cases and convictions, and in one the victim lives and one the victim doesnt, why shouldn't the punishment be the same?
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:28 am to Boss13
quote:
The only difference in the two charges is outcome.
And that should be the primary objective in determining justice because otherwise you start playing mind reader games.
So you think it’s okay for felony battery to ramp up all the way to “life in prison” based on the hindsight evaluation and possible political motivations of the DA? Don’t you think there is an intermediate move there?
This post was edited on 7/30/20 at 10:30 am
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:29 am to burdman
In Louisiana if you are convicted of 2nd degree murder you get life without parole. And if you get convicted of 1st degree murder it’s life without parole or execution...... but take out the execution part and tell me the difference.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:30 am to LNCHBOX
quote:No, it's not at all.
No thanks. It's obvious.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:30 am to Volvagia
quote:
because otherwise you start playing mind reader games.
How? You already did by charging it as attempted murder. You’ve already claimed to know the intent to murder was there. The only difference is the victim didn’t die.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:31 am to Gravitiger
quote:
DWI is a specific intent crime. Vehicular homicide is a general intent crime.
Both murder and attempted murder are specific intent crimes.
I got the analogy, but I'll play devil's advocate here. DWI may be a specific intent crime, in that you intentionally drove knowing you are impaired. However, you DID NOT intend to kill anyone. If you get in a fight and pull a gun and shoot at someone and miss or just wound them, you DID intend to kill them.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:32 am to Volvagia
quote:
And that should be the primary objective in determining justice because otherwise you start playing mind reader games.
So you think it’s okay for simple battery to ramp up all the way to “life in prison” based on the hindsight evaluation and possible political motivations of the DA? Don’t you think there is an intermediate move there?
That distinction is already made in the legal system. 1st, 2nd, 3rd degree murder, assault, assault with a deadly weapon, etc. I'm not arguing that the distinctions should not exist, you are changing the premise. I'm arguing that if you have two similar cases, but one victim lives and one dies, why is there a difference in penalties.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:32 am to SouthEndzoneTiger
I agree with this.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:33 am to Boss13
quote:
I'm arguing that if you have two similar cases, but one victim lives and one dies, why is there a difference in penalties.
Because each part of a crime is judged individually, not as a whole.
ETA: Nevermind. My post doesn't really apply since it talks about what exists vs what should exist. My bad.
This post was edited on 7/30/20 at 10:36 am
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:34 am to TH03
quote:
How? You already did by charging it as attempted murder. You’ve already claimed to know the intent to murder was there. The only difference is the victim didn’t die.
Exactly! Point well made.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:36 am to Boss13
I've always said you shouldn't get a lighter sentence because you're a poor shot.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:37 am to Gravitiger
quote:Josh just got pwned
DWI is a specific intent crime. Vehicular homicide is a general intent crime.
Both murder and attempted murder are specific intent crimes.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:38 am to burdman
quote:
Because each part of a crime is judged individually, not as a whole.
That's an obtuse response. Please elaborate. For the sake of the discussion:
Man 1 and man 2 both plan to go home and shoot their wives in the exact same way. Man 1 succeeds and Man 2 misses. Should the punishment be the same? Assume both have the exact same homelife, backstory, and plan.
ETA: Just saw your ETA
This post was edited on 7/30/20 at 10:40 am
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:38 am to Joshjrn
quote:
Please explain.
Intent? Maybe DWI and involuntary manslaughter is more applicable.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:38 am to Boss13
quote:
That's an obtuse response. Please elaborate. For the sake of the discussion:
I edited my post 3 minutes before you made this response.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:40 am to burdman
I saw right after I submitted. Takes a minute to type on my phone. My bad.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:41 am to Joshjrn
quote:
Christ have mercy, you’re a jackass.
i argue with lunchbox and much as anyone but you are the bone head in this thread. 
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:42 am to CarRamrod
quote:
Josh just got pwned
1. He's wrong.
2. It wouldn't matter, regardless.
quote:
§10. Criminal intent
Criminal intent may be specific or general:
(1) Specific criminal intent is that state of mind which exists when the circumstances indicate that the offender actively desired the prescribed criminal consequences to follow his act or failure to act.
(2) General criminal intent is present whenever there is specific intent, and also when the circumstances indicate that the offender, in the ordinary course of human experience, must have adverted to the prescribed criminal consequences as reasonably certain to result from his act or failure to act.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:43 am to Joshjrn
quote:
1. He's wrong
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