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re: Should There Be A Difference in Punishment for Murder and Attempted Murder?
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:44 am to CarRamrod
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:44 am to CarRamrod
quote:
i argue with lunchbox and much as anyone but you are the bone head in this thread.
No, I'm simply one of very few people on this thread who actually know the elements of the crimes being discussed, at least as they exist in the state of Louisiana. And considering that this is a website called TigerDroppings.com based out of Louisiana, I don't think that's unreasonable
2
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:44 am to SouthEndzoneTiger
quote:how can you intentionally drive if you are impaired? always seems weird to me.
in that you intentionally drove knowing you are impaired.
I didnt meant to drive officer, i was drunk.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:45 am to Joshjrn
quote:
No, I'm simply one of very few people on this thread who actually know the elements of the crimes being discussed, at least as they exist in the state of Louisiana. And considering that this is a website called TigerDroppings.com based out of Louisiana, I don't think that's unreasonable
IF you were wondering why I said you aren't worth engaging, this is it in a nutshell.
"I'm totally right guys. No one agrees, but trust me. It's yall, not me."
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:46 am to TH03
quote:
How? You already did by charging it as attempted murder. You’ve already claimed to know the intent to murder was there. The only difference is the victim didn’t die.
The problem is it’s less of a perilous cliff with an intermediate charge. 5 years in jail to life in prison is a pretty damned dramatic jump.
Also, the root question is somewhat flawed.
You can get charged for attempted murder if there is evidence of planning.
So you should get life in prison even though you didn’t actually attempt to do anything to a person?
(Btw, I’m using the connotation of the word murder here, not the legal definition. )
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:46 am to LNCHBOX
he sounds like an L1 trying to throw his weight around.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:49 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
LNCHBOX
Criminal intent, defined:
quote:
§10. Criminal intent
Criminal intent may be specific or general:
(1) Specific criminal intent is that state of mind which exists when the circumstances indicate that the offender actively desired the prescribed criminal consequences to follow his act or failure to act.
(2) General criminal intent is present whenever there is specific intent, and also when the circumstances indicate that the offender, in the ordinary course of human experience, must have adverted to the prescribed criminal consequences as reasonably certain to result from his act or failure to act.
Criminal intent, expressed:
quote:
§11. Criminal intent; how expressed
The definitions of some crimes require a specific criminal intent, while in others no intent is required. Some crimes consist merely of criminal negligence that produces criminal consequences. However, in the absence of qualifying provisions, the terms "intent" and "intentional" have reference to "general criminal intent."
Definition of DWI:
quote:
§98. Operating a vehicle while intoxicated
A.(1) The crime of operating a vehicle while intoxicated is the operating of any motor vehicle, aircraft, watercraft, vessel, or other means of conveyance when any of the following conditions exist:
(a) The operator is under the influence of alcoholic beverages.
(b) The operator's blood alcohol concentration is 0.08 percent or more by weight based on grams of alcohol per one hundred cubic centimeters of blood.
(c) The operator is under the influence of any controlled dangerous substance listed in Schedule I, II, III, IV, or V as set forth in R.S. 40:964.
(d)(i) The operator is under the influence of a combination of alcohol and one or more drugs that are not controlled dangerous substances and that are legally obtainable with or without a prescription.
(ii) It shall be an affirmative defense to any charge under this Subparagraph that the label on the container of the prescription drug or the manufacturer's package of the drug does not contain a warning against combining the medication with alcohol.
(e)(i) The operator is under the influence of one or more drugs that are not controlled dangerous substances and that are legally obtainable with or without a prescription.
(ii) It shall be an affirmative defense to any charge under this Subparagraph that the operator did not knowingly consume quantities of the drug or drugs that substantially exceed the dosage prescribed by the physician or the dosage recommended by the manufacturer of the drug.
(2) A valid driver's license shall not be an element of the offense, and the lack thereof shall not be a defense to a prosecution for operating a vehicle while intoxicated.
*** the rest removed so it would fit within the character limit ***
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:51 am to Joshjrn
Can we just stick to the topic of the thread instead of whatever weeds you're trying to dive into to find a W?
The analogy you made was a bad one. No amount of copying and pasting is gonna change it.
The analogy you made was a bad one. No amount of copying and pasting is gonna change it.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:53 am to Volvagia
quote:
So you should get life in prison even though you didn’t actually attempt to do anything to a person?
People are charged with attempted murder for planning it but not actually doing anything? Wouldn’t that be conspiracy to commit murder?
This is from a law firm in Texas:
quote:
The court requires the direct step to go beyond the concept that the individual prepared to commit murder. He or she must actually cross over from mental decision to action, and take steps to perpetrate an action of murder:
This post was edited on 7/30/20 at 10:56 am
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:55 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
Can we just stick to the topic of the thread instead of whatever weeds you're trying to dive into to find a W?
The analogy you made was a bad one. No amount of copying and pasting is gonna change it.
Aw, do we not want to argue that the general vs specific intent distinction is crucial, and that I'm an idiot for not understanding the difference?
I don't see an important distinction between attempted murder and murder being specific intent crimes while DWI and Vehicular Homicide are general intent crimes, but if people want to debate the issue along those lines, I'm fine with that.
If people believe that the OP's proposal should only apply to specific intent crimes, I'm fine with that, as well.
Though with that said, it would be nice if people were more clear about what they are advocating for.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:56 am to CarRamrod
quote:
i argue with lunchbox and much as anyone but you are the bone head in this thread
Yeah, lnch can get spicy, but he isn’t dumb.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:56 am to Joshjrn
quote:
Aw, do we not want to argue that the general vs specific intent distinction is crucial, and that I'm an idiot for not understanding the difference?
Thanks for doing exactly what I said you would and showing why engaging you is pointless.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:56 am to Boss13
A related value is "With greater power comes greater responsibility". A greater punishment for successfully committing a crime effectively makes the onus of avoiding evil even greater for the more talented than the more common people.
As one of the good guys, I want the bad guys to be the underdog. I want the criminals to be inept, bumbling, idiots, NOT genius masterminds.
As one of the good guys, I want the bad guys to be the underdog. I want the criminals to be inept, bumbling, idiots, NOT genius masterminds.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:57 am to TH03
quote:
People are charged with attempted murder for planning it but not actually doing anything? Wouldn’t that be conspiracy to commit murder?
Nope. For funsies, this is the definition for Louisiana:
quote:
§27. Attempt; penalties; attempt on peace officer; enhanced penalties
A. Any person who, having a specific intent to commit a crime, does or omits an act for the purpose of and tending directly toward the accomplishing of his object is guilty of an attempt to commit the offense intended; and it shall be immaterial whether, under the circumstances, he would have actually accomplished his purpose.
B.(1) Mere preparation to commit a crime shall not be sufficient to constitute an attempt; but lying in wait with a dangerous weapon with the intent to commit a crime, or searching for the intended victim with a dangerous weapon with the intent to commit a crime, shall be sufficient to constitute an attempt to commit the offense intended.
(2) Further, the placing of any combustible or explosive substance in or near any structure, watercraft, movable, or forestland, with the specific intent eventually to set fire to or to damage by explosive substance such structure, watercraft, movable, or forestland, shall be sufficient to constitute an attempt to commit the crime of arson as defined in R.S. 14:51 through 53.
C. An attempt is a separate but lesser grade of the intended crime; and any person may be convicted of an attempt to commit a crime, although it appears on the trial that the crime intended or attempted was actually perpetrated by such person in pursuance of such attempt.
D. Whoever attempts to commit any crime shall be punished as follows:
(1)(a) If the offense so attempted is punishable by death or life imprisonment, he shall be imprisoned at hard labor for not less than ten nor more than fifty years without benefit of parole, probation, or suspension of sentence.
(b) If the offense so attempted is punishable by death or life imprisonment and is attempted against an individual who is a peace officer engaged in the performance of his lawful duty, he shall be imprisoned at hard labor for not less than twenty nor more than fifty years without benefit of parole, probation, or suspension of sentence.
(2)(a) If the offense so attempted is theft or receiving stolen things, and is not punishable as a felony, he shall be fined not more than two hundred dollars, imprisoned for not more than six months, or both.
(b) If the offense so attempted is receiving stolen things, and is punishable as a felony, he shall be fined not more than two hundred dollars, imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.
(c)(i) If the offense so attempted is theft of an amount not less than seven hundred fifty dollars nor more than twenty-five thousand dollars, he shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars, imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.
(ii) If the offense so attempted is theft of an amount over twenty-five thousand dollars, he shall be fined not more than two thousand dollars, imprisoned, with or without hard labor, for not more than five years, or both.
(3) In all other cases he shall be fined or imprisoned or both, in the same manner as for the offense attempted; such fine or imprisonment shall not exceed one-half of the largest fine, or one-half of the longest term of imprisonment prescribed for the offense so attempted, or both.
E. For the purposes of Subsection D of this Section, the term "peace officer" means any peace officer, as defined in R.S. 40:2402.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 10:58 am to TH03
quote:
Yeah, lnch can get spicy, but he isn’t dumb.
For the record, I didn't say he was dumb. I said he's behaving like a jackass, which I still believe
Posted on 7/30/20 at 11:00 am to Joshjrn
quote:
B.(1) Mere preparation to commit a crime shall not be sufficient to constitute an attempt; but lying in wait with a dangerous weapon with the intent to commit a crime, or searching for the intended victim with a dangerous weapon with the intent to commit a crime, shall be sufficient to constitute an attempt to commit the offense intended.
Not sure if I like this part. Sounds like thought crime if an overt action doesn’t take place.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 11:01 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
Thanks for doing exactly what I said you would and showing why engaging you is pointless.
frick off.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 11:01 am to Joshjrn
quote:
frick off.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 11:03 am to TH03
quote:
Not sure if I like this part. Sounds like thought crime if an overt action doesn’t take place.
Yeah, it gets a little squishy, but the State would still have to prove the actions you took, whether lying in wait or searching for the victim, were what the State claimed them to be.
I'll say that I've been doing this for almost a decade, and I've never seen an ADA bill an attempt relying on that part of the definition.
Posted on 7/30/20 at 11:03 am to Joshjrn
You are getting owned by Lunchbox of all posters.... please... and IF you know SO much about Louisiana law than answer my preivious post.......
Posted on 7/30/20 at 11:05 am to dukke v
quote:
You are getting owned by Lunchbox of all posters...
At least he isn’t getting owned by you.
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