re: Settle a drunken argument: Tyson vs Bruce Lee no holds barred KO match

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I've never seen someone so unjustifiably feared as Mike Tyson.

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I think the fear is pretty justified.

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Tyson was definitely fast for his size, however we are comparing him being fast to the people he was fighting.

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You quoted me talking about Lee, though.

I agree with your statement - Tyson was very, very fast for a man his size, particularly with the punching power he had. He would not have been considered "fast" in lower divisions.

IMO Lee wins this fight 8 out of every 10 times its fought but every once in a while Tyson will connect and when he does, its lights out for the kung fu king

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The fact that Abe Lincoln killed vampires gives him this title. I mean according to many in this thread it must be real if it was in a movie.

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Mel Gibson from Patriot too, but both used weapons so they're out.

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I think the fear is pretty justified.

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Very few fought him without fear. Certainly Buster Douglas did not appear to fear him, nor did Holyfield or Lewis. The problem with the "aging" Tyson response is that all these guys are older than him.

In his prime, he was a very formidable opponent. But more so than Joe Louis in his prime (25 title defenses), Marciano (undefeated as a heavyweight, despite giving up size and reach advantages to virtually every opponent - and a lack of what would be considered "boxing" ability) or Ali (captured the title 3 times)? I'm not so certain. He was on the cusp of eclipsing all 3 of those greats - but everything went wrong, seemingly at once.

But fear is one of the non-objective things in Tyson's favor.

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Whether or not he could land that gouge is the question. But then you're taking away the beauty of the fight right?

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It's a fight who cares about the "beauty" of it. All your fancy bullshite goes right out the window when facing a giant like Tyson. Strength and size trump your bullshite karate moves.

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Swing and a miss on the point, and you clearly didn't understand the point of "beauty," or read the first paragraph of the response.

The point, in a real fight, a "no holds barred, no one leaves alive," kind of fight, the winner is not who punches the hardest, or who's the strongest, etc. Strength, Reach, power-per-pound. I think people are still trapped in this idea of rules, even metaphorically. "Beauty," for the Tyson lovers in his strength, brutality, hand-speed etc. So in their heads, this fight ends up a boxing match, and Tyson wins.

(For Lee it's his overall speed, skillset, wisdom, etc.)

All of that effects the fight, but take away the beauty...just like you said and...

The winner is whoever can debilitate the fastest. Right? If not, then I don't think you get it. This isn't a boxing match, this isn't even a ground and pound. Whoever gets the most vicious attack in first probably wins. And both Lee and Tyson are capable of that, and we don't really (and can't) have proof of them really letting go (not even Tyson's ear bite) and trying to kill someone though. On either account.

It doesn't have to be a magic eye gouge or dislocated knee. Throat jab, wrist break, etc. But Tyson's strength means less than his durability in this case. Even with that, a real debilitating hit can fly right past the ability to take a punch. Does Lee get a kick to the nuts in? Does he get an eye gouge? Throat jab?

I think, even the street fighting stories for Tyson, in that situation it was just as much about appearances, and the "honor" of a fist fight, as kung fu is. It isn't really about maiming and disabling someone. The idea of a fist fight is romantic. The idea of a throat jab, not so much.

If you really got into a bar fight, and REALLY wanted to win without fear of repercussions or truly hurting your opponent, you don't put up your fists, and try to punch away, you disable, and do it quickly. By any means necessary, even risk of killing.

Most will like to think that Bruce can win because of his speed in that situation alone and that's fair. But if you throw out everything, it's about who gets that first truly unruly attack in. And that makes it kind of impossible to talk about.

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You quoted me talking about Lee, though.

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Did I?

I was skimming through it

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He would not have been considered "fast" in lower divisions

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This. We have no reference really of how his speed would hold up against a truly fast opponent. The thing with Lee, is he has fought bigger & stronger people.

Lee also has a fighting style that would allow him to adapt to the fighter, which Tyson really doesn't have to a great degree. Tyson can alter a few things, but his actual fighting style relies on being in close quarters with somebody that for the most part stays pretty much in front of them.

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The thing with Lee, is he has fought bigger & stronger people.

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When and where?

We have proof of Tyson competing against other professionals. We can't say the same for Lee. It's all conjecture.

I can't believe this thread is at 17 pages.

Tough times on the OT

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fricking l at 150lbs breaking Tyson's arm.

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With proper training, it isn't really all that hard.