re: Question about the Algerian shemale boxer:

What was wrong with the below?

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With androgen insensitivity syndrome a grade 1 is likely to less androgen insensitive than a grade 2 is, and so on until you get to complete androgen insensitivity at 6/7.

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I used grades of genital masculinization because with this boxer it appears a choice was made early on if not at birth. The scale isn’t just used for androgen insensitivity syndrome, but those grades basically correlate with individual’s androgen insensitivity.

Is it exact or can you list a specific level of androgens for each grade and person? Can you predict what specific level of androgen therapy will trigger specific masculinizing effects? Of course not. I never said that.

I said earlier in thread in response to someone saying testosterone test was good enough to show athletic advantages that even for the most feminine XY androgen insensitivity syndrome without any androgen therapy the testosterone levels would likely be in the male range and maybe higher regardless of actual benefit if any at all in some cases.

What’s considered normal testosterone has a large range for age groups. Even with that some men with low end normal ranges actual require and benefit from therapy while others don’t need it. Some may be good with what’s considered low. Why would one think that is any different with androgen insensitivity syndrome without?

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I want to see a story come a out about the Algerian competing in the Olympics so she can try to have trans surgery to be a man in France.

Then all the far right people have to back track from calling her a man.

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Yeah it’s just the far right. Keep smoking that leftist turd.

Why would an XY need surgery to become a man?

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Is it exact or can you list a specific level of androgens for each grade and person? Can you predict what specific level of androgen therapy will trigger specific masculinizing effects? Of course not. I never said that.

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Because of androgen physiology. Typically Leydig cell secretion maintains a steep downhill concentration gradient into the bloodstream which can modulate androgenic effects on distant target tissues. When there is a disorder characterized by hormone resistance, you are going to get completely variable, tissue-dependent effects. Hence why you need to differentiate between primary, secondary, and tertiary androgenic effects. Categorizing one as a proxy for the others isn't the way the spectrum of the disorder will work, physiologically speaking.

If for example the patient has a disorder on the gene which encodes the steroid nuclear receptor superfamily, which is on the X chromosome, you are going to have a completely inconsistent pattern of gene expression because steroids will interface with the binding domain to produce transcriptional activity. In other words, we describe these disorders as a 'spectrum' precisely because there is a spectrum in the symptomatology. Where transcriptional activity is not affected, you might see normal development, but given that will be variable depending on the specific type of dysfunction, dysregulation, or mutation. If the patient has 'complete' androgen insensitivity, which means that their is no transcriptional activity or modulation from androgens, the amount of testosterone they produce is not meaningful because they simply cannot use it.

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Some may good with what’s considered low

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I've never seen a patient with what is considered 'low testosterone' that didn't already complain of the classic symptomatology of low testosterone FWIW.

It seems like you aren't understanding that because of the tissue specific nature of androgen dysfunction, using external genitalia as a proxy for overall androgen function, which is important because in this case it is the secondary effects of testosterone that are at issue, isn't a good metric.

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Why would an XY need surgery to become a man?

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Because she has a vagina and no penis.

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Keep going. You're this close to getting him to say "some men have vaginas"

What the frick is an XY? I thought it was male and female. 2 genders. So is it male, female, and XY? And you're saying XY wouldn't need to transition to a male, so does that mean XY is male? So the boxer is a male? Like with a penis and everything. Because if she has a vagina and not a penis that means they transition from male to female. But in Algers it's illegal to do that. So I'm confused as frick.

I gotta be honest, it's weird for me because I have always believed we have two genders. Yeah life isn't black and white and there is rare cases of some people born with both parts. But that shite ain't common enough to be a big deal. You have two genders and like 1 in a few hundred thousand you got Bill who's a little different.

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Because if she has a vagina and not a penis that means they transition from male to female. But in Algers it's illegal to do that. So I'm confused as frick.

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Indeed, you are.

First Dallas, not arguing with you.

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Just testing for testosterone levels is an overly simplistic and a “feel better” solution for a much more complex situation.

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there needs to be a solution. what is your solution? One possible idea is to tell the crazies to F off. Or, test for testosterone levels. Or, birth sex only.

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What certain agenda? Protecting women’s sports???

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that was not meant for you, necessarily. more referring to the people making (or not making) these decisions.

Using the google machine, 1.7% of the population is born with both organs. there needs to be a solution for the masses, without allowances for the 1.7%.

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I believe the boxer was born with female genitals, but with testicles inside her body. She is a she and has never identified as gay or Trans or any of that. But she has a high level of T due to the presence of the testicles.

Something along those lines

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So XY genetics with nondescendant testicles that produce testosterone like any other male unless her testes were removed before puberty?

I'd be interested in knowing if she has testes still present.