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Started By
Message
2
Posted on 7/14/16 at 1:53 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Actually I do. Otherwise every cop shooting is justified. All they've got to do is say "I felt threatened". Well OK, we can't question that since we were not there. He's got to be justified, he said he feared for is life. Case closed.
Wrong.. It's not whether he feared for his life or not.. It's whether a reasonable officer would fear for their lives.
EDIT: That is something that will be investigated and determined by people with a lot more knowledge and experience then us.
This post was edited on 7/14/16 at 1:55 pm
Posted on 7/14/16 at 1:54 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
After he was down, no.
didn't know you couldn't reach for a gun while on the ground
Posted on 7/14/16 at 1:54 pm to slackster
quote:
but that isn't where the story ends
Actually it's exactly where it should end.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 1:55 pm to UpToPar
quote:
What? It's not just LEOs. If this guy walked into your house at night with his hand behind his back and kept walking towards you you would have every right to shoot him. Further, after he falls to the ground if he continued to move around and reach for his waist you would have every right to shoot him again.
There is a whole different set of rules in your home. Always has been. What if you did this in a parking lot?
Posted on 7/14/16 at 1:58 pm to Speedy G
All of what you said is accurate. Nicely done.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 1:58 pm to Salmon
quote:
didn't know you couldn't reach for a gun while on the ground
He was clearly not reaching for any gun while he was down. Was he moving? Yes. Reaching for a gun? No. And it don't even look like he could "possibly" be reaching for one.
And as for the possibility of him having a second gun on his front, if he had, he'd have gone for that one first while still upright. You can get a weapon out and up much faster from your front than from your back. There was no need to stand there and continue to shoot him while he was laying there.
This post was edited on 7/14/16 at 2:00 pm
Posted on 7/14/16 at 2:00 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
Actually it's exactly where it should end.
You just said non-compliance doesn't excuse any and all actions of the officers, but now it does?
Posted on 7/14/16 at 2:00 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
He was clearly not reaching for any gun while he was down.
You don't know that. They didn't know that.
quote:
And it don't even look like he could "possibly" be reaching for one.
You taking that risk?
quote:
There was no need to stand there and continue to shoot him while he was laying there.
like I said, this is quite easy to say after the fact from a computer 3,000 miles away
Posted on 7/14/16 at 2:01 pm to Speedy G
quote:
That's not so much a problem in situations like this one or most others, which can be justified w/o much imagination, but this 'shoot first' mindset creeps into other much more questionable situations, like perhaps the Minnesota shooting. I recall seeing a video where a guy exited his vehicle after parking, when an officer rolled up (guy matched a suspect description or something). Officer asked to see his ID, guy reached into his car to get it and the officer opened fire ('I thought you were reaching for a gun'). That homeless camper in New Mexico a few years ago. Etc.
There are people out there with mental problems (or substance abuse) who are generally incapable of complying with every command. I recall a video where an obvious mental person had a knife in his hand, didn't drop it on command, and got shot to death. When the suspect is not an imminent threat to officers or anyone else, I believe shooting him should be a last resort.
I agree with all this
but this isn't relevant for this situation
Posted on 7/14/16 at 2:01 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:his right hand tries to go into his front pocket
He was clearly not reaching for any gun while he was down. Was he moving? Yes. Reaching for a gun? No. And it don't even look like he could "possibly" be reaching for one.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 2:01 pm to thedogman
quote:
If BLM had a brain between all of them they would latch on to this and say "see police should be reformed because they are against all of us" Good thing that BLM are just a bunch of racist. Maybe the white kid should have raped and impregnated a 14 year old or been a convicted felon then folks would give a shite about him.
The statistics alone tell you BLM is about nothing but hate and politics.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 2:02 pm to tduecen
Young Man looks intoxicated or on something
He disobeyed, slow played the orders
He seems content with allowing the Cops to shoot him
They should have used a non lethal first
Cops, once again, were scared and made a hasty decision
The excess shooting while he was on the ground was unnecessary.
He disobeyed, slow played the orders
He seems content with allowing the Cops to shoot him
They should have used a non lethal first
Cops, once again, were scared and made a hasty decision
The excess shooting while he was on the ground was unnecessary.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 2:03 pm to slackster
quote:
You just said non-compliance doesn't excuse any and all actions of the officers, but now it does?
Where did I say that?
In this case, the cops are justified after the non-compliance.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 2:03 pm to Darth_Vader
Clearly.. What was he clearly reaching for.. If you see that's where he was shot, back that up with the autopsy results.
As for your second part, that's a stupid argument.. If you need me to explain that I will, but hopefully you can figure out at least one reason why someone would do it that way on your own...
As for your second part, that's a stupid argument.. If you need me to explain that I will, but hopefully you can figure out at least one reason why someone would do it that way on your own...
Posted on 7/14/16 at 2:03 pm to Darth_Vader
I'd like to see some case-studies or research done on situations where the police actually ended up taking gunfire.
What sort of precursors were there? Most of the things I've seen, while strictly anecdotal, tend to be when the officer goes to the door of the vehicle or an unrestrained suspect goes back into the vehicle to get a weapon.
What sort of precursors were there? Most of the things I've seen, while strictly anecdotal, tend to be when the officer goes to the door of the vehicle or an unrestrained suspect goes back into the vehicle to get a weapon.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 2:05 pm to Salmon
quote:
like I said, this is quite easy to say after the fact from a computer 3,000 miles away
How's what I'm doing any different that what you're doing from your computer 3,000 miles away? The only difference is we disagree on the justification of the shots while he was down.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 2:06 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
How's what I'm doing any different that what you're doing from your computer 3,000 miles away?
It's incredibly different. You are claiming to clearly see things, while Salmon isn't.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 2:06 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
Where did I say that?
quote:
Me:Does the cops' actions after he was non-compliant matter?
You: Yes
Posted on 7/14/16 at 2:06 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
While he was up, yes. After he was down, no.
This really surprises me coming from you, it's absolutely absurd that you think he is no longer a threat.
The guy didn't listen when:
He had at least 3 guns on him
He was shot twice
He was shot a third time in the ground
If he doesn't listen after all of that and is acting like he wants to hurt an officer, I don't have an issue with shooting him again. Yeah that last shot certainly killed him, I'm not sure he wasn't dying after the first 2. But wounded and on the ground he was more likely to shoot the officers than ever.
Listen to the freaking police when they have a gun drawn.
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