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Message
re: Philando Castile shooting dashcam video released - NSFW
Posted on 6/21/17 at 9:39 am to jbgleason
Posted on 6/21/17 at 9:39 am to jbgleason
quote:
already handed the insurance info to the officer, who put it in his pocket, and then he says "I have a gun." The officer says "don't touch it" which quickly becomes the officer yelling and telling him to not touch it. Good lighting, the officer has a clear view and is very insistent. No doubt that the guy was touching the gun for some reason. Unless you are going to believe he just yelled that with the sole intent of covering his arse so he could murder the guy.
Why would Castile keep doing what he was doing? No clue. But people pull guns and shoot people all the time. I was told by somebody local that the gun wasn't in a holster but was between his leg and the seat. If that was the case, he was an idiot for doing anything except keeping his hands up. No way I am going towards the gun, my pockets or anything else in that vicinity.
Quoted because a good breakdown, albeit maybe a little biased.
What a fricked up situation - truly. If you were to deliberately storyboard a simple yet complicated shoot-decision scenario this would be it.
As to why Castile kept going for the gun/doing whatever he was doing that appeared to the officer to be going for the gun, the only thing I can imagine is because he was high he was slow to react or something.
It is common sense that announcing a firearm to a cop (which is proper) should also be accompanied by utterly non-threatening hand/arm movements. If the firearm is anywhere around you SLOWLY OUTSTRETCH your fingers and place them on your head interlocked and wait for instructions.
But IMO the cop also probably jumped that; even just two seconds may have avoided it. BUT gotta give them the benefit of the doubt when a situation is that fricked up, he can't read minds and it only takes a half second for someone to shoot you.
1
Posted on 6/21/17 at 9:48 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
I am starting to think this was the case. There's a big difference between someone being charged and someone being convicted. You kept on saying "charged" when I think you meant "convicted".
I was being inadvertently crass, convicted/not convicted was the term I was intending to use in regards to the jury's decision.
Posted on 6/21/17 at 9:49 am to Havoc
quote:
As to why Castile kept going for the gun/doing whatever he was doing that appeared to the officer to be going for the gun, the only thing I can imagine is because he was high he was slow to react or something.
He told the cop he had a firearm, and when instructed not to pull it out, he affirmed that he wasn't. To the extent he could think after the cop shot him five times, I imagine he was bewildered more than anything.
Posted on 6/21/17 at 9:53 am to jbgleason
Wow this completely negates any argument the urbans have made.
Why wasn't this released beforehand?
People marching for no justice no peace should be ashamed of themselves.
Why wasn't this released beforehand?
People marching for no justice no peace should be ashamed of themselves.
Posted on 6/21/17 at 11:02 am to Mung
quote:
where do you see that in the video?
Watch the interview with the lone juror willing to talk after the verdict. He said the dash-cam video made the Facebook live feed video null and void. And based on the dash-cam video the jury felt it was beyond reasonable doubt that the officer would have been able to see at least part of the handgun based in the LEO's proximity to the victim.
Also, the juror who gave the interview was an old school hippie who talked like he would have liked to have reason to convict the LEO but it just wasn't there. Which brings me back to my point about recording 100% of LEO's interactions from the very start of the call to the parting of ways with the person encountered. If the LEO does not have the full audio/video here, he is up State this morning.
Posted on 6/21/17 at 11:16 am to pankReb
quote:
People typically don't get fired if it's determined that they did their job correctly.
In today's social media world they most absolutely do! The LEO can now go through his union and file for monetary reimbursement from the dept that fired him. He (the LEO) needs to be away from that town anyway and should probably even move states.
Posted on 6/21/17 at 11:23 am to Pettifogger
I agree with you...I'm usually on the side of the LEO, but this one is difficult. If you listen at the 10:15 mark in the video you here the officer who did the shooting tell another officer investigating the incident that he didn't know where the gun was, so the victim most certainly could have been simply reaching for his wallet.
I realize it's difficult to second guess these things, but why couldn't the officer, given he had backup, simply retreated to a position behind the drive side door and demand the driver exit the vehicle with his arms raised. From behind, it would have given the officer response time if the driver had intent to escalate the event by firing at the officer.
Further, there was testimony that that the victim told the office he had a weapon, I would think that if the victim had any intent to use the weapon he would not have first disclosed that he had one...
Anyway, I know and accept this is simply armchair quarterbacking, but it would seem that professional LEO should be trained for this situation.
I realize it's difficult to second guess these things, but why couldn't the officer, given he had backup, simply retreated to a position behind the drive side door and demand the driver exit the vehicle with his arms raised. From behind, it would have given the officer response time if the driver had intent to escalate the event by firing at the officer.
Further, there was testimony that that the victim told the office he had a weapon, I would think that if the victim had any intent to use the weapon he would not have first disclosed that he had one...
Anyway, I know and accept this is simply armchair quarterbacking, but it would seem that professional LEO should be trained for this situation.
This post was edited on 6/21/17 at 11:28 am
Posted on 6/21/17 at 11:32 am to SlapahoeTribe
quote:
It just all seems so bizarre. Not only does she so quickly film it, she post a live stream of it. She doesn't even seem to care about her child. She isn't acting like I would expect anyone, especially a mother, to act and like I think I would act in this situation.
It's today's social media narcissistic behavior. Like the woman from the Aunt Jamima's thread yesterday who is outraged by Aunt Jamima and wants the image and name of Aunt Jamima changed to her image and name (to bring awareness to early onset dementia and shed light on Aunt Jamima's racist history???)
This post was edited on 6/21/17 at 11:33 am
Posted on 6/21/17 at 11:36 am to mlminbtr
quote:
it would seem that professional LEO should be trained for this situation
I think we all agree that we WISH professional LEO should be trained for this situation. However, we are dealing with underpaid public officials, which by being so underpaid (like teaching) the job itself does not attract the best and brightest.
Posted on 6/21/17 at 11:39 am to Clyde Tipton
quote:
Dashcam video shows officer firing 7 shots into Philando Castile's car
Yet this is the headline that Yahoo post
This post was edited on 6/21/17 at 11:50 am
Posted on 6/21/17 at 11:51 am to jbgleason
A single thought from your Boulder overlord to sum this up:
There is absolutely no way it can proven he reached for the gun and the shooting was justified, or the other side that he didn't and the cop acted out of fear and the shooting was not justified. What happens in that situation? Hell if I know but the cop can't go to jail as he can't be proven guilty, right?
There is absolutely no way it can proven he reached for the gun and the shooting was justified, or the other side that he didn't and the cop acted out of fear and the shooting was not justified. What happens in that situation? Hell if I know but the cop can't go to jail as he can't be proven guilty, right?
Posted on 6/21/17 at 12:01 pm to ghost2most
quote:
My best guess is that maybe he had to pull the gun to get to the registration, etc.
What
In
The
fricking
frick????!
Posted on 6/21/17 at 12:01 pm to SamuelClemens
quote:
Which brings me back to my point about recording 100% of LEO's interactions from the very start of the call to the parting of ways with the person encountered. If the LEO does not have the full audio/video here, he is up State this morning.
Agree completely. That being said, I'd venture to say that in the history of policing the balance of who would be better served by having a full audio and video of the encounter would not usually be the police, who up until recently could write anything on a report and without video refuting it, it would be taken as gospel. This case is the exception, I'd think.
EVERYONE should demand this. Citizens should certainly want it, and honest LEO's (most of whom are I think) should want it. Basically, unless you're trying to get away with something during the encounter on either side I can't think of one good reason not to have them all recorded if possible.
Who benefits from them not being recorded other than corrupt LEO's or criminals trying to get away with something or accuse an officer of something they did not do?
Posted on 6/21/17 at 12:08 pm to mlminbtr
quote:
Further, there was testimony that that the victim told the office he had a weapon, I would think that if the victim had any intent to use the weapon he would not have first disclosed that he had one...
I think this part is fairly irrelevant. That cop had only a few seconds from the time he was told of the presence of the weapon to the time he felt he needed to react to the guy digging in his pockets. It makes sense now, but I can't expect that guy to process that infomation in fractions of a second. If someone tells me they have a weapon then keeps reaching in their waistband or pockets, I have to assume the worst.
Posted on 6/21/17 at 12:12 pm to jbgleason
With your hands in clear view, inform the officer you have a firearm concealed and tell him exactly where it is located. At that point, they will instruct you of exactly what they want you to do. Also, do not keep your insurance/registration in the same location of your gun to prevent any confusion when retrieving it.
Not getting shot by a cop is very easy to do.
Not getting shot by a cop is very easy to do.
Posted on 6/21/17 at 12:37 pm to AUsteriskPride
The most frustrating about this thread to me is that people act like this was the only time all year a police officer was involved in a traffic stop with an armed citizen. I mean come on.
How many times every day do officers handle this situation correctly? Probably 100s, literally. I don't know how many traffic stops there are daily, but this instance is by no means the norm for a Police/ Conceal carry interaction.
Its completely unfair to start the "police are not trained" well enough BS talk when this is extremely rare occurrence where the victim did multiple things wrong.
Additionally, and I apologize if I'm wrong here but was it not said that Castille was either high or there was an odor of marijuana at least in the car? I thought I remember people talking about him driving high with a kid in the car. I'm not saying that driving high is inherently a terrible thing and by no means punishable by death, but if he was high and had a gun on him with a kid in the car it would explain why his reactions could be off. It could also explain why the officer may be more nervous.
How many times every day do officers handle this situation correctly? Probably 100s, literally. I don't know how many traffic stops there are daily, but this instance is by no means the norm for a Police/ Conceal carry interaction.
Its completely unfair to start the "police are not trained" well enough BS talk when this is extremely rare occurrence where the victim did multiple things wrong.
Additionally, and I apologize if I'm wrong here but was it not said that Castille was either high or there was an odor of marijuana at least in the car? I thought I remember people talking about him driving high with a kid in the car. I'm not saying that driving high is inherently a terrible thing and by no means punishable by death, but if he was high and had a gun on him with a kid in the car it would explain why his reactions could be off. It could also explain why the officer may be more nervous.
This post was edited on 6/21/17 at 12:41 pm
Posted on 6/21/17 at 1:08 pm to Spock's Eyebrow
quote:
He told the cop he had a firearm, and when instructed not to pull it out, he affirmed that he wasn't. To the extent he could think after the cop shot him five times, I imagine he was bewildered more than anything.
The idea that saying "I'm not reaching for it" carries more weight than your physical actions is absolutely absurd. He was clearly doing something to make the cop go from 2 to 10 like that.
Posted on 6/21/17 at 4:48 pm to Jester
quote:
The idea that saying "I'm not reaching for it" carries more weight than your physical actions is absolutely absurd. He was clearly doing something to make the cop go from 2 to 10 like that.
Like I said, bewilderment. In his mind, and I believe in reality, he was following the cop's instructions while reaching for his wallet or whatever. "I told the cop about my gun. I'm not pulling it, so I'm not in any danger." Instead of going from 2 to 11 (that cop skipped 10), the cop could have told him to stop moving and put his hands on the steering wheel. That numbnuts was very lucky he didn't kill everyone in the car.
Posted on 6/21/17 at 4:54 pm to Spock's Eyebrow
Why are black 'victims' trained so well to record shite? It's amazing...
- officer shoots boyfriend and kills him
- woman cries for a few seconds
- woman decides to record shite
- officer shoots boyfriend and kills him
- woman cries for a few seconds
- woman decides to record shite
Posted on 6/21/17 at 5:03 pm to TexasTiger08
You can tell by the officers reaction how shook up he was, he definitely was not expecting to have to do that on what should have been a simple stop.
He asked 4-5 times not to reach for it.
He asked 4-5 times not to reach for it.
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