re: Pedestrian Math And Science Educational Experiences

I think it's the way it's taught. You're forced to learn calculus before you can even begin physics. And in HS physics, you're going to be stuck with boring Newtonian mechanics anyway.

And if you try to major in it in college, there's really no application unless you're in engineering. And if you're in engineering, you're probably not going to be learning much about Einstein's relativity or quantum theory since Newton is "good enough" for every day work. You don't need GR or QM to build a bridge or an airplane or design computer hardware.

And if you go for a straight up physics major, then you're going to be learning really difficult stuff like differential geometry (tensors), high level calculus, and various advanced algebras. And if you're a physics major, there's not many career paths other than teaching HS (bachelor's degree) or being a college professor (PhD). I am not saying being a professor is the only path for a PhD in physics, but it's the most common path -- especially if you're looking at being a theorist and not an experimental physicist.

I think what we need is a "science without the math" initiative in HS. Learning the conceptual ideas behind the more advanced physics topics is fascinating even without the math. Of course, to really understand QM or GR you NEED math. And even then, no one understands QM (as Neils Bohr said).

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I think what we need is a "science without the math" initiative

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The science Is the math.

huh?

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Math and Science education sucks in America. We lack qualified teachers.

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Based on experience I agree, but hard to separate the effects of shitty parenting and ,school administrators that won't support teacher disciplinary actions like tossing a student out of class permanently.

Does anyone know the math or physics requirements to get certified as a math or physics teacher? When I was in school the standard rumor was that you could make C's and D's on your math and science classes as long as you did well in the education and liberal arts courses and still get an education degreee in math. T or F?

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The requirements to teach need to be broadened. I can teach at a college but couldn't teach at a HS. Makes zero sense to me. There are some ppl especially women who have a MS or PhD in Chemistry, Biology etc and they can't just go teach at a public HS. I'm sure OT parents would love their kids HS science teacher be a legit scientist.

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You're right. It's always been obvious to me that education degrees and certification were more of a union requirement designed to keep qualified and knowledgeable competition out of the industry than any guarantee of competence.

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You're forced to learn calculus before you can even begin physics.

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That's because you need calculus to tackle Physics. And by that I mean you need to have mastered calculus and diff. eq. - it should be intuitive, not something you muddle through with a B minus.

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if you're a physics major, there's not many career paths other than teaching HS (bachelor's degree) or being a college professor (PhD).

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This is only true if you want to stay in the field. If you're open to other fields then it's a great background to have. I was able to leverage my degree into a successful career in ERP consulting. Wall St. hires quantitative analysts from top Phys programs because the math is quite similar.

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I think it's the way it's taught. You're forced to learn calculus before you can even begin physics. And in HS physics, you're going to be stuck with boring Newtonian mechanics anyway.

And if you try to major in it in college, there's really no application unless you're in engineering. And if you're in engineering, you're probably not going to be learning much about Einstein's relativity or quantum theory since Newton is "good enough" for every day work. You don't need GR or QM to build a bridge or an airplane or design computer hardware.

And if you go for a straight up physics major, then you're going to be learning really difficult stuff like differential geometry (tensors), high level calculus, and various advanced algebras. And if you're a physics major, there's not many career paths other than teaching HS (bachelor's degree) or being a college professor (PhD). I am not saying being a professor is the only path for a PhD in physics, but it's the most common path -- especially if you're looking at being a theorist and not an experimental physicist.

I think what we need is a "science without the math" initiative in HS. Learning the conceptual ideas behind the more advanced physics topics is fascinating even without the math. Of course, to really understand QM or GR you NEED math. And even then, no one understands QM (as Neils Bohr said).

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i teach hs science & math, and you are correct ... many teachers do not stress conceptual understanding enough ... one reason is it's easier to create numerous assignments based on the math calculations of something ... there was a bit of a push many years ago for various types of 'conceptual' classes for kids that weren't 'good at math', but they were poorly designed and essentially by-passed deep understanding of a concept in favor of tricked up labs/lessons ...

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AUstar

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Yeah. Back when I originally started posting on here. I said the same thing. I have a BS in Physics but honestly, I wish I would have changed to another major for undergrad when my first plan was not working out.

I switched to another major in graduate school because, by the time I got my last year, I realized I really was not passionate about Physics. Sometimes I wonder what would have happened if I switched to technology or just transferred to learned process technology instead.

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Fourier and Laplace transforms

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That was cool. I hated series. Cal 2 was my hardest class in the maths. Diff EQ was my favorite.