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Octavius (Augustus) Caesar: Cruel sniveling coward or great Roman (or both)?

Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:04 am
Posted by Methuselah
On da Riva
Member since Jan 2005
23350 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:04 am
What's your take on the guy?

Definitely seems like he was a physical coward. And definitely seems like he was adept at political/power grabbing machinations (but perhaps no more than his contemporaries and probably necessary for survival).

On the other hand, he did kind of usher in the Pax Romana and returned Rome to glory after the mess that was the end of the republic and the civil war period.
Posted by stinkdawg
Savannah, smoking by the gas cans
Member since Aug 2014
4072 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:08 am to
I never knew him.
Posted by Sid in Lakeshore
Member since Oct 2008
41956 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:09 am to
quote:

Octavius (Augustus) Caesar: Great Roman!!!
quote:

ushered in the Pax Romana and returned Rome to glory

Posted by Cooter Davenport
Austin, TX
Member since Apr 2012
9006 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:12 am to
He's not treated too kindly in I, Claudius, but for his faults he was definitely better than those that came after him. Agirppa was the "man behind the throne" for sure though. Without Agrippa winning the Battle of Actium Augustus isn't victorious, without Agrippa the capitol isn't re-made in marble and splendor, various other engineering defeats aren't accomplished, and no one is afraid of Octavian. Augustus gets the credit, but the real man of history was Agrippa, and people talked trash about Octavian for that reason at the time.

Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
51399 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:18 am to
Brave. Keep in mind opposing people back then meant your head came off even if you never fought. Ask Cicero's shade.

He was a nobody. 18 years old. Took Caesar's name. At the time that meant the Senate opposed him, meaning Cato, Cassius, Brutus, et al. Then there was Mark Antony. Oh, and the little Pompey had a nice navy and controlled the seas.

He had to beat all of them before he could assume the purple.

As for Agrippa, the sign of a great leader is one who recognizes the talent around him and is NOT threatened by it. Lesser men see such as a threat and not an asset.
This post was edited on 1/11/16 at 11:23 am
Posted by Sid in Lakeshore
Member since Oct 2008
41956 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:26 am to
Who was the Greatest Roman?

Marius? Tiberius? Julius Caesar? Gnaeus Pompey? Octavian/Augustus?

Crassus was Julius Caesars Benefactor, the wealthiest man in Rome (perhaps the wealthiest man in history), basically the Kingmaker for Julius Caesar. Interesting but certainly no tthe greatest.
Posted by SpqrTiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2004
9263 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:40 am to
Augustus Caesar was the greatest of all Roman emperors and is in the discussion for GOAT ruler of any country.


Posted by Methuselah
On da Riva
Member since Jan 2005
23350 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:57 am to
Agrippa was definitely a very talented person. Kind of A renaissance man with skills in multiple. Areas . But I don't know if I'v e ver seen him referred to as the Power behind the throne. Maybe something of a mutually beneficial relationship. Between the two but I think Augustus was pulling the strings.

Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
51399 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 1:31 pm to
Agrippa needed him as he didn't have the clout or birthright to be emperor.

I would put Trajan right up there with Augustus or underneath him.
Posted by Methuselah
On da Riva
Member since Jan 2005
23350 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 7:12 pm to
quote:

I would put Trajan right up there with Augustus or underneath him.


Both pretty good examples of the effectiveness of the Roman habit of emperors "adopting" their heir as emperor. Though in Trajan's case at least I think the guy that a adopted him was given a little push by the army.
Posted by Kafka
I am the moral conscience of TD
Member since Jul 2007
141926 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 7:15 pm to
quote:

Who was the Greatest Roman?
Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
51399 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 7:41 pm to
Yup. And Marcus screwed it up when he made his actual son the heir
Posted by Dick Leverage
In The HizHouse
Member since Nov 2013
9000 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 8:43 pm to
He was a political mastermind unlike any the Roman Empire had ever seen and none after ever had the enduring influence that he had. He understood how to hide autocratic rule beneath the guise of Republican principles. He outlasted and out maneuvered the likes of Pompey, Brutus and Cassius in the East, Sextus Pompey on Sicily, and Mark Antony. He chose wisely in making his childhood friend Agrippa the hammer of his reign. Under his reign, the empire reached its apex in expansion and administration and was at an all time high at his death. He wisely, abandoned the quest to expand North of the Rhine into Germanica even though it had been a goal of his and the Senate to expand to the Elbe for 3 decades. Instead, he put focus on strengthening the border territories South of the Rhine and strengthening Romes hold on the Trans-Alpine, Long Haired, and Cis-Alpine Gaul territories.

He was a master at giving the impression that he was a champion of the Republic while ruling as a benevolent dictator.

As far as being a coward, he was definitely interested in his own self preservation especially in his early years and in the heat of battle. He was always "sick" and in a tent in the rear when things got messy. He was no Agrippa or Antony in that regard. His brilliance was in his ability to slow play politics to eventually consolidate power. It did not hurt that he Julius Caesar left him his entire estate. He had the money and wherewithal to pay his legions, Senators, and citizens handsome sums for their loyalty early in his rise to power.

History shows that all of this ended up for the greater good of Rome during and for centuries after his death. I personally think he was the greatest leader Rome ever had.
Posted by Priapus
Member since Oct 2012
1950 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 9:33 pm to
Gaius Marius if I had to pick a Roman to run my railroad.
Posted by Ancient Astronaut
Member since May 2015
33089 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 9:52 pm to
The guy with pet rock has my vote
Posted by BookahBear
Member since Jan 2015
756 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:11 pm to
Hannibal was the man
Posted by Alan Garner
thigh-land
Member since Oct 2009
3433 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:12 pm to
considering who he had to defeat through political gain and actual warfare and the overall health of the empire at the time, I think Augustus has a serious claim to be GOAT roman emperor and is definitely no. 1 in my book.
Posted by blueboy
Member since Apr 2006
56342 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:27 pm to
quote:

Kafka
frick that.

Posted by athenslife101
Member since Feb 2013
18564 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:28 pm to
He was a great man. Simple as that. He took the rather sloppy work begun by Ceaser and turned it into an empire. He was brilliant, considerate, and crafty.

He was kinda a bastard though when it came to family matters. He instituted a bunch of dumb anti-sex laws and even had his own daughter arrested.
Posted by blueboy
Member since Apr 2006
56342 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:32 pm to
quote:

The guy with pet rock has my vote


One of history's great mysteries. How the frick did that guy become Emperor?
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