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re: Not addressing the shooting here, but why do people resist arrest?
Posted on 7/6/16 at 2:57 pm to Funky Tide 8
Posted on 7/6/16 at 2:57 pm to Funky Tide 8
quote:
Funky Tide 8
![](https://images.tigerdroppings.com/Images/Icons/IconLOL.gif)
I'll tell you one real quick.
When you finish the academy, they put you into small groups wherever your duty assignment is. I was in Yuma, Arizona along with three of my academy classmates. Keep in mind that you learn a lot at the academy but you really don't learn much about actually chasing aliens, drug smugglers, dope dealers and human traffickers. You pick up on constitutional law and legal authorities and self-defense but the bulk of your job you learn through the Field Training Program, where you're assigned to a salty vet who "unlearns" all the academy bullshite you spend the last six months acquiring.
At any rate, on my second night on duty me and my field training officer (FTO) were patrolling the border through some pretty rugged desert mountain terrain when we came across sets of footprints (called "sign") for at least 25 aliens. This foot sign rolled straight up a windy mountain. We knew they had crossed within the last hour so my FTO grabbed me and off we went on foot into the darkness.
We pushed this group up the mountain all night, stopping only to make sure we could still track their prints. Soon, we came across a large pile of vomit. My salty-arse FTO came across it first and without hesitation, stuck two fingers straight into it and goes, "It's still warm. We're close." Off we went again at an even faster pace.
Finally just before dawn we stumbled up the group. They had fallen asleep under some brush just near the other side of the mountain. There was two of us and 15 of them so my FTO had us split up and try to corral them best we could. Most of them had this "Oh, shite-busted" look on their faces but two of them were covered in tats and looked like they wanted to fight. My FTO ordered everyone to lay down on their stomachs but these two clowns just stood there and squared off on us.
We all stood there in the dark, the four of us and thirteen aliens on their bellies staring at each other for a second, when the two standoffish aliens took off running. I didn't know what to do. Do I stay with the 13 on the ground or chase the two? I froze, looking to my journeyman for instruction. Hell, this was my second day on the job. I barely knew how to drive from my new house to the station.
My FTO screamed at me to follow him and off we rolled after the two. We ran and ran and ran for at least another hour. We finally caught them just south of Interstate 8. They were nearly dehydrated but still wanted to fight once they realized they couldn't run any further. It was daylight by now and they had nowhere to go. They again squared up on us waiting on us to try and take them into custody. My journeyman pulled out his baton so I did the same and we went at it. We put them down pretty quickly but the experience was an eye opener. I was like, "What the frick did I get myself into?" It turns out the two guys were brothers wanted in Guatemala for murder. I learned from that moment on, you never know who you're dealing with until the fingerprints return. I also learned that you always chase the first runner. It doesn't matter who else gets away. You cannot allow the first runner to beat you.
ETA: I've got plenty of stories but this one is fresh in my mind, given the OP.
This post was edited on 7/6/16 at 3:00 pm
Posted on 7/6/16 at 3:01 pm to wolfonthebayou
quote:
But that's why I fight these wimps every chance I get
RIP
Posted on 7/6/16 at 3:25 pm to tigerskin
I've told my children that when the police show up it's over no matter what it is. Not the start, not the middle, the end - it's over. If everyone thought like that then interaction with the police would go much better.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 3:37 pm to tigerskin
Because these days, people are used to arguing and talking back to authority figures.
It starts with parents, then teachers and administrators. Then they think they can backtalk and disobey cops who have guns, and find out the hard way that homey don't play that shite.
It starts with parents, then teachers and administrators. Then they think they can backtalk and disobey cops who have guns, and find out the hard way that homey don't play that shite.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 3:53 pm to mylsuhat
![](https://i.imgur.com/hgU9Dg1.png)
Not for nothing, but the second version was completely different than the first version. Why would the police synonym not have stop too? The second just defined essentially medical.
You are conceding rights as an American if you willingly allow arbitrary "stops" and "checks" without any probable cause. So in all actuality, the scenario offered
"Sir, I'm going to need you to go sit on that curb."
"Am I under arrest?"
"I need you to go sit on that curb"
"Why, am I under arrest?"
"GO SIT ON THE frickING CURB!!"
"Dude, I just want to..."
"HE'S RESISTING! TAKE HIM DOWN! PUT YOUR frickING HANDS BEHIND YOUR HEAD!"
Charge = resisting arrest.
Would be wrong unless the "resistor" was doing something criminal, like obstructing justice (not clearing a crime scene). It is in your best interest to just sit, but I don't see how asking if(and not being told) you are under arrest is grounds to be "resisting arrest". Louisiana law does have resisting an officer, but they must state you are under arrest, or be actively arresting you, for you to be resisting.
This post was edited on 7/6/16 at 3:54 pm
Posted on 7/6/16 at 3:57 pm to Montezuma
quote:
You are conceding rights as an American if you willingly allow arbitrary "stops" and "checks" without any probable cause
You are incorrect. You can stop and detain with reasonable suspicion. You do not need probable cause unless you wish to perform a nonconsensual search or to seize someone (or something) permanently.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 3:57 pm to texashorn
quote:
Because these days, people are used to arguing and talking back to authority figures.
And they don't eat their vegetables!
Posted on 7/6/16 at 3:59 pm to ClientNumber9
Yup.
PC is easy though if you're articulate enough.
PC is easy though if you're articulate enough.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 3:59 pm to tigerskin
quote:
why do people resist arrest?
They're either:
1.
Too stupid to understand basic truths. Such as "if you kick a bear, it will maul you."
I don't care how mean the bear is or how innocent you are or why the bear isn't supposed to touch you, if you kick a bear, it will maul you. So don't kick bears. Just let the bear sniff around and it will go away. It's what they do.
Or
2.
They're guilty and usually have been guilty of other things in the past
Personally I've been pulled over a number of times, stopped outside of bars, temporarily detained by police, and every time I am polite and respectful and they are polite and respectful back. I've been given more warnings than tickets and I've never been to jail.
I have friends that have resisted and got the shite kicked out of them and friends who were innocent but so over the top obnoxious to the cop they got thrown in the drunk tank for a night because they're stupid.
On average, cops will match your intensity and mood.
You comply and respond politely and let them do their job asking questions and shite, they'll just let you be.
They ask your name after they have reasonable suspicion and you respond with frick you and start running or resisting or immediately getting into a fighting stance and they're going to match that intensity.
This post was edited on 7/6/16 at 4:07 pm
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:05 pm to Rebelgator
Rebel, how long have you been with the G? Always interesting to see how varied the audience is on here...
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:06 pm to ClientNumber9
At what instance? Border Patrol check points? DUI check points are some of the ones I figure that that would be the case. Me and you are probably talking very close to the issue when you, as an officer, are speaking about reasonable suspicion, and I, as a civilian, am talking PC. May you clarify the difference, as I don't think we are far off in what I am referring to. And this is not in defense of this shooting case, so I am not saying this guy wasn't resisting.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:07 pm to Walt OReilly
quote:
Not addressing the shooting here, but why do people resist arrest?
quote:
Narcotics make people do dumb shite
This and going to jail sucks. Its not the environment but the fact you're just wasting away inside. The only thing to look forward to are the 3 meals and med time in the morning and night. Hopefully someone will spit out their benzos in exchange for one of your meals or a zoo.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:14 pm to tigerskin
If you are a convicted felon..... which the dude was.... and you you knew you were going to jail.... which the dude was...... what did he have to lose? He was going back to jail and get fricked in the arse because he was a CONVICTED SEX OFFENDER. He had nothing to lose. He was going to jail whether he shot a cop or whether he complied with their demands to get on the ground. Dumb people do dumb things. /story
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:20 pm to Mie2cents
As said, Alton was a convicted felon and had spent multiple trips in prison. He had a gun on him and convicted felons aren't allowed to own guns, therefore he knew he was headed back to jail. He had nothing to lose in trying to fight his way out of it, except that he took it took far.
That's how most look at it resisting arrest, if you are already screwed how much worse are you going to be for a resisting arrest charge. Not much.
That's how most look at it resisting arrest, if you are already screwed how much worse are you going to be for a resisting arrest charge. Not much.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:21 pm to Breesus
quote:
On average, cops will match your intensity and mood.
You comply and respond politely and let them do their job asking questions and shite, they'll just let you be.
This is almost always the case, in my experience.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:24 pm to Montezuma
Reasonable suspicion is legally this: a set of articulable facts, which, when taken together, leads an officer/agent to believe that the suspect MIGHT be involved in criminal behavior.
Probable cause is legally this: a set of articulable facts, which, when taken together, leads an officer/agent to believe that the suspect IS LIKELY involved in criminal behavior.
There's only that one word there but it's a powerful distinction.
What you can do with reasonable suspicion:
-affect a traffic stop in order to verify if that person is engaging in criminal activity
-temporarily seize a person or object on a short term basis until you complete your on-scene investigation
-briefly search the immediate area of the person you are speaking with, but only for weapons
What you can do with probable cause:
-permanently seize a person or object
-conduct a search (mostly in conjunction with a warrant though there are exceptions)
I'll put this legal definition into a real world application. Let's say I'm a beat cop on duty and I see a guy standing in an alley outside of a house, prying on the window at 3 am. He's wearing a ski mask. There are several articulable facts that lead me to believe this person MIGHT be involved in criminal activity. So I can detain this person temporarily as I learn more, as I have reasonable suspicion. Remember- I have a set of facts which leads me to think this person MIGHT be involved in criminal activity. The subject is not free to go. This is not a consensual encounter.
Let's say the subject says, "Look, this is my house, I made a mistake and locked myself out and I was just opening up the window to let myself back in. He can show proof of ownership of his house and satisfies to me that he's not breaking the law. He's free to go. My reasonable suspicion has been dispelled and I can no longer keep him, nor should I want to.
Now lets look at this same scenario but going to a different ending. Say our guy with the pry bar breaking into the house is standing there and the home owner comes out and says, "Hey, this is my house. This guy is trespassing and breaking/entering. I've never seen him before in my life." At this point, I now have probable cause that he committed a crime and he's NOT free to go. He is being "permanently seized" (i.e., going to the station, booked, fingerprinted, etc.).
Probable cause is legally this: a set of articulable facts, which, when taken together, leads an officer/agent to believe that the suspect IS LIKELY involved in criminal behavior.
There's only that one word there but it's a powerful distinction.
What you can do with reasonable suspicion:
-affect a traffic stop in order to verify if that person is engaging in criminal activity
-temporarily seize a person or object on a short term basis until you complete your on-scene investigation
-briefly search the immediate area of the person you are speaking with, but only for weapons
What you can do with probable cause:
-permanently seize a person or object
-conduct a search (mostly in conjunction with a warrant though there are exceptions)
I'll put this legal definition into a real world application. Let's say I'm a beat cop on duty and I see a guy standing in an alley outside of a house, prying on the window at 3 am. He's wearing a ski mask. There are several articulable facts that lead me to believe this person MIGHT be involved in criminal activity. So I can detain this person temporarily as I learn more, as I have reasonable suspicion. Remember- I have a set of facts which leads me to think this person MIGHT be involved in criminal activity. The subject is not free to go. This is not a consensual encounter.
Let's say the subject says, "Look, this is my house, I made a mistake and locked myself out and I was just opening up the window to let myself back in. He can show proof of ownership of his house and satisfies to me that he's not breaking the law. He's free to go. My reasonable suspicion has been dispelled and I can no longer keep him, nor should I want to.
Now lets look at this same scenario but going to a different ending. Say our guy with the pry bar breaking into the house is standing there and the home owner comes out and says, "Hey, this is my house. This guy is trespassing and breaking/entering. I've never seen him before in my life." At this point, I now have probable cause that he committed a crime and he's NOT free to go. He is being "permanently seized" (i.e., going to the station, booked, fingerprinted, etc.).
This post was edited on 7/6/16 at 4:27 pm
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:30 pm to Montezuma
quote:
Border Patrol check points? DUI check points are some of the ones I figure that that would be the case
BP, DUI and TSA checkpoints are considered administrative checkpoints. For these, you need ZERO suspicion. Law enforcement doesn't need reasonable suspicion or probable cause here. Everyone has to stop. Agree or not, they've been upheld numerous times and validated by the SCOTUS. Again, I'm not saying I agree with these laws/checkpoints at all (I don't), but I'm point out the differences as you requested.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:45 pm to wolfonthebayou
quote:
I guess I'm not surprised by the amount of pussies in the OT. When some pip squeak that spent his high school career getting thumped in the ear and thinks he'll hide behind a badge, gun, taser, or whatever, I like to let him know who is boss. Most of them really are bitches. Really guys, can't take down some overweight cd salesman who is full of Hawaiian Punch and Little Debbie Cakes? Not like you were after Tyrone, or some bad arse. But that's why I fight these wimps every chance I get. Sure a little arm bending and a few hours of harassment is involved, but like the "Federal Agent" already admitted, they throw this out every time. At least Judges got beat up and focused their efforts on getting even a better way.
![](https://i.imgur.com/seh6p.gif)
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:55 pm to hogminer
I was put in cuffs once. Was at the wrong place at the wrong time. I didn't panic. I was respectful. They released me fairly quickly once they realized they had the wrong person.
They apologized for troubling me....I replied back with "no problem officer, Hope you find who you're looking for."
...and that was that. I hated the fact that I was standing there in handcuffs.....but I knew that I did nothing wrong and just complied.
Is that what "privileged" feels like?
They apologized for troubling me....I replied back with "no problem officer, Hope you find who you're looking for."
...and that was that. I hated the fact that I was standing there in handcuffs.....but I knew that I did nothing wrong and just complied.
Is that what "privileged" feels like?
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